Edinburgh Kilt Co.

[KiltFitz]

Ah - but they don't depreciate rapidly - that is just the thing, and quality garments are not a luxury.

I'd have to disagree. The kilt I just paid for a couple of months ago lost monetary value as soon as I took it out the shop. That's what I mean by depreciation, not that I personally appreciate it any less.

Much as I would be happy to utilise my kilt to make savings on the purchase of other clothing by wearing it on a more regular basis, were I to turn up at a job interview wearing my heavyweight kilt, my chances of securing employment would likely drop quite rapidly - even in Scotland.

I do get the logic of quality over a long time beating cheapness over a short time. But if I just don't have the money right away for good, quality garments, I'm not going to walk around naked until I can afford them - even in Scotland.

[KiltFitz]

[QUOTE=OC Richard;1154350]I must say I don't agree with this sort of thing.

1) some people can only afford tat: My response to this is that, for the same price as "tat", one can pick up ex-hire or vintage/used Made In Scotland high quality clothes.

The black Argyll jacket I got off Ebay for less than $100 is probably ex-hire (it has its size marked inside with some sort of fabric pen) and it's one of the finest jackets I've seen. The fabric is luxurious and soft and several notches nicer than anything I've seen for sale at the Games recently (and I'm talking Scottish-made jackets from leading firms).

There are lovely 8-yard handsewn all-wool kilts on Ebay all the time, oftentimes for less than a "tat" kilt would cost.

2) the masses require mass-produced and cheap: I don't think the masses require Highland Dress. It's specialty clothing and completely optional.

3) parading their affluence: see above... I have no affluence to parade, but enjoy wearing high-quality things that in most cases I've picked up for less than "tat".
QUOTE]

I apologise if we are spending too much time debating this issue but I'll just respond to this if I may:

1) Not all of us can find that kind of thing either through lack of skill using the internet (believe it or not, some people don't or can't use ebay) or like me, because I am outwith normal clothing size ranges. Even large dept stores don't carry my size in-store for most items so what's my chances of finding any choice in the second-hand market. Fat or even very small or thin or extremely tall people will often keep their clothes becuase they were so difficult to source in the first place. I just bought an ex-hire Argyle jacket over the web. Took me ages to find something affordable and it will still require alteration. It will be more in the region of $160 by the time it fits and it's not even new.

2) Maybe in the OC, but it is very much expected where I live for many events and we don't think of it as "specialty clothing", we consider it formal wear to the greatest extent (although I don't speak for all Scots). I could count on one hand how many men in Scotland I know who did not wear a kilt to their wedding. No not mandatory, but then again very few rites of passage or observance of custom or cultural are. We feel compelled to participate however. That is not what I would call "completely optional". The suitor proposing to his fiancee could use the same argument for his $20 ring. I doubt she'd be convinced.

3) I was not saying that any of you are currently wearing quality highland clothes in order to parade or flaunt your affluence in front of the great unwashed, I was expressing a fear that we would move in that direction.

My point is that if highland attire becomes unavailable to lower budgets, wearing kilts and traditional jackets etc will become a status symbol like diamond jewellery or fur coats. I would prefer to see more people in kilts, not less. Sorry if I have responded vigorously to this post, I do see the point of view of skilled artisans, professionals and knowledgeable hobbyists. I am indeed happy to spend my own money on quality goods and believe that skill, time and effort should be appropriately rewarded. But there are other people to consider in this debate and I don't think their voices are fully heard on such a forum, probably because they haven't joined.

I'll shut up now.

Fitz

[OC Richard]

Yes I have to agree with the size thing, KiltFitz, because I deal with it myself! I'm 6'4" around 235 pounds 43" waist 18" calves etc and I have to really beat the bushes for things that fit me.

There are hundreds of lovely vintage tweed kilt jackets, regulation doublets, etc I've had to pass over because they're size 38 or 40! I need a 50L.

There are hundreds of wonderful vintage kilts I couldn't consider because they were size 32 or what have you.

But I diligently search and I do find the rare size 50 jacket for little money (I have a black Argyll, a green tweed Argyll, and a Prince Charlie, all Scottish-made) and occasionally kilts.

Now you there in Glasgow- how I wish I could have the opportunity you have! Because after the new year all the kilt hire shops put their ex-hire stock up for sale and you can have your pick of sizes and tartans etc. Here in the States there's no such opportunity and we have to find what we can online. (The majority of the kilt hire shops don't list their ex-hire stock online.)

A piper friend lived in Glasgow for a few years and what a treasure trove of kit he picked up for very little money there! He bought things he's never worn much (like a Harris Tweed Inverness cape and tartan trews) simply because he couldn't pass up the opportunities to get them so inexpensively. (He's a smaller, more common size which really helps.)

About the depreciation of quality kit: When I started kiltwearing in the 1970s one could purchase a new leather "day" sporran (made in Scotland by one of the leading makers) for between $15 and $25 depending on style. A sporran made then, if in decent shape, would easily fetch that today on Ebay.

It's far more dramatic with pipes: my engraved German Silver and ivory mounted Lawries, from c1900, probably sold for about 10 pounds new. A similar set recently sold for nearly 2,000 pounds.

But yes! If you buy a new bespoke kilt today and pay full price you'll not be able to recoup your money in your lifetime unless you're quite young. 50 years from now, probably.

[KiltFitz]

Ha ha, try being a 56 chest in the UK, it's great fun. Seriously though, and with the greatest of deference to the susbcribers on this site, you may want to look at Macgregor MacDuff or Ministry of Tartan who list quite good used items and the clan collection at Piob Mhor http://www.clancol.dircon.co.uk/clanpages/used.html.

Have to go and flog my recently purchased military brogues on ebay now as they are too narrow for my enormous flippers and I need wide-fit. It never ends...

[OC Richard]

I just see on Ebay a bonanza for us larger guys, a guy in Lochgilphead selling several fantastic kilts including a Harris Tweed Isle of Skye for 100 pounds each! Waist 41 lengths vary from 25 to 26.