New (?) Games in Dana Point CA, Aug 24-25 2013

[Downunder Kilt]

Gee, I thought Australia had a couple of world champions, 6 championships in the last 14 years (source - wiki) Seems like we don't mind having to travel to do our thing.

[Alan H]

Gee, I thought Australia had a couple of world champions, 6 championships in the last 14 years (source - wiki) Seems like we don't mind having to travel to do our thing.

Well, that's the problem, Downunder Kilt. Aaron Neighbor, who is from Melbourne won the "World Championships" at Inverness in 2009. However, there was another "World Championship" that year in the USA and Sean Betz won it. So, who is the real "World Champion" for 2009?

There are people who are using the term "World Championship" and "National Championship" pretty loosely these days, primarily as a marketing tool. Here are examples.

I just threw at the Costa Mesa Highand Games. The organization that puts this on bills it as their "National Championship". However, the Games in Enumclaw bills their event as the North American Championship. For literally decades, before the beginnings of professionalism got into the sport in North America, the Pleasanton Highland Games were considered the de facto North American Championships.

Well which one is the REAL National Championships? There are two Games which claim the title of the Canadian National Championships. so, which one is the real Championships? There are two Games which claim the title of the "Lightweight Highland Athletes World Championships".

"World Championship"... the Dana Point event is touting itself as the "World Championship". Yet the very same guy who is promoting this, had another "World Championship" this year in Croatia. Not ONE thrower who was at the Croatian event will also be at Dana Point. In fact, only ONE Scottish thrower is supposed to be at Dana Point, though he tied this year for the Scottish Highland Games Championships, so he has a legitimate claim to represent his country. One Polish guy will be there, one Aussie, one Canadian and the rest are from the USA. So which one is the real "World Championship"? TRUTH, not a single competitor at the event in Croatia could hold a candle to any of the lads who will be at Dana Point.

This is the problem that the sport finds itself in, right now, and because of some personality issues, the Dana Point event is becoming a bit of a flash-point for the problem.

It seems like a number of the "Pro's" will show up, simply because of the money. The money is the trump card. While that bothers me, they ARE "Pro's, and pretty much none of them will mince words about it. No money? They don't show up.

...and that means that the TRADITIONS lie in the hands of the non-pro's, which I find to be very sad, but so be it.

[cessna152towser]

Sydnie's thread has gone away off topic but there are some interesting points being made here.
I've seen Aaron Neighbour in action here in Scotland and also in the USA. He is based in Australia so he obviously has a big travel budget.
I was secretary and treasurer of my local games which sadly ceased after the 2011 event as we ran out of people who were willing to sponsor (ie subsidise) the games year after year.
Paying public who attended on the day were only a few hundred and we tried to attract Heavy Athletics competitors by guaranteeing a minimum prize of £50. Our budget meant limiting the number of entrants to 6. So the winner would receive £175, 2nd would receive £150, 3rd would receive £125, 4th would receive £100, 5th would receive £75 and lowest scorer would receive £50. One year our six Scottish based athletes were about to begin when a USA based heavies competitor announced his presence and that he would like to take part. After discussion with the committee and the referee we agreed we didn't want to turn him away, yet the other athletes wouldn't be happy if the extra competitor meant someone going home with no prize money. So we agreed to up the prize money by £200, so that 1st would receive £200 while the athlete with the lowest overall score would still get his £50.

[Alan H]

Alex, the numbers you put up here are interesting. Let me acquaint you with what "Pro" Heavies make in the USA. About a year ago I contacted Matt Vincent to ask about having him come to my event at Ardenwood. This was when he was certainly starting to get a lot of attention as an up-and-coming Pro, but before he won any really big championships. This is what he told me.

I was to cover round-trip airfare from Louisiana to California... that's about $600
I was to provide a hotel room for at least two nights.... that's about $250
a meal allowance of $60 per day - three days...
There would be an appearance fee of $1,000

and he wanted to know about prize money for breaking the field records and so on... as in, if there wasn't more money available, he would probably look for another event that weekend. In other words, I couldn't have Matt Vincent show up on my field for less than about $2,000 at the absolute minimum.

I could probably get Rusty Price, one of the Pro's who live here in California, to show up for $500 because he's not been working as hard as he has been in the past, so he's not in as high demand as he was two years ago. Also, he's close enough that he could come in, throw and then get back home and spend the night in his own bed.

If I were to try to get John Odden or Jon O'Neil...two very good throwers on the West Coast who are "second tier" Pro's, it would cost me airfare from Seattle for Odden and Los Angeles for O'Neil plus a hotel room for two nights, plus the meal allowance and probably a $250 appearrance fee. That's at least $800 for each guy.

I can't afford this stuff. There's just no way, whatsoever and so I don't even try. My Heavies are all local amateurs, and nobody makes a dollar at it. We throw because we love to throw. However, with the changing attitudes in SOME...not all, but SOME of the Pro Heavies, my Games would be considered a stupid little "backyard" event, because to these guys, the things that COUNT are the high-paying events where they make, say $3-4K over a weekend.

Now, I actually understand this. Why should my friend Mike Pockoski pay his own airfare and his own hotel and his own meals to come out to California, from New England to throw? It will cost him $1500 to do it and he'll have to spend the weekend away from his family. On the other hand, once or twice a season I fly to some out-of-state location to throw, simply because I love to do it.

Where's the answer? I'm not sure, but disrespecting a small event is NOT the way to do it, and that's what I'm hearing from a few guys in the sport.

[Alan H]

Sorry that your thread has taken such a wide turn, sydnie7...we can move this elsewhere if you like.

After all, this is a KILT forum, not a "politics of the Heavy Athletics" forum.

[sydnie7]

Sorry that your thread has taken such a wide turn, sydnie7...we can move this elsewhere if you like.

But was it a complete turn, Alan? LOL

I do think this discussion might be better served in the Athletics forum, if you even want to continue it. Perhaps a mod could move this thread there, and I could try again with a different title in the general "let's go to a Games!" forum. The Dana Point website does imply dancing, clans, vendors, food, music. . . and oh yes, some Games

[cessna152towser]

Good idea Sydnie.
Thread being moved to Athletics sub-forum at your request.
As suggested by you please post a new introductory post in the main Highland Games section.

[Downunder Kilt]

Alan, I have been doing some reading on the net of the different games, here there and everywhere, and it appears to me, to be the same situation that has beeen created in other sports eg. Boxing. You have the WBF and the WBA, both who have world titles, then if you win both, you are the undisputed champion. I have read the material on the games site that the OP refered to and can see this exact same thing (as you previously mentioned.)