What tartan is this?

[Nathan]

I'll bet this is a fashion tartan.

It's always possible, but given the vintage and how it was treated as a precious family heirloom, I think it's worth digging a little more to make sure.

[David Thorpe]

It's most likely a fashion tartan. The warp and weft are different. Large black horizontal stripes are lighter grey in the vertical.

[figheadair]

Definitely a fashion tartan.

David, the warp and weft are not different. Look carefully at the tan/yellow pivot and you'll see the same effect albeit not so apparent at first glance. This effect is caused by the material being woven slightly warp faced i.e. the warp is denser than the weft and is whilst not a standard technique is not uncommon especially on cheaper cloth as it creates the effect but save material and therefore cost. One can also find it as a technique in some older samples (which this is not) as it makes the cloth coarser.

[Jock Scot]

I cannot help with the tartan, but your comment about the grouse claw pin has had me thinking. "---------an heirloom"? Well of course it is, but "----of significance to their Scottish culture"? Well again, of course it may well be to the person who bought it, to the person who wore it and to their successors, but in general terms, I am not at all sure that a pin such as you describe could be described in general Scottish terms as a significant part of Scottish culture. In fact many of these grouse claw artifacts were worn as brooches. My mother had several as did many ladies of that era and indeed some men wore ---some may still do so---- them as kilt pins, but whilst you can still see them for sale on occasion, they are not the fashion item that they once were. But a cultural item of significance? Hummmm, I am not so sure.

[Phil]

Like Jock I can only ever recall ladies wearing grouse claws as described as a brooch. I am not sure that I ever saw one worn as a kilt pin and have my doubts that something so typically feminine would have been. Perhaps attitudes are different elsewhere.

[MacMillans son]

Like Jock I can only ever recall ladies wearing grouse claws as described as a brooch. I am not sure that I ever saw one worn as a kilt pin and have my doubts that something so typically feminine would have been. Perhaps attitudes are different elsewhere.

Although not being able to speak to traditional Highland attitudes, I can say that hereabouts having a dried grouse, pheasant, duck, chicken, or any other foot attached to your clothes would certainly not be something thought to be feminine at all. I live in a very diverse country, so there may be regional and/or cultural exceptions, but generally speaking, animal parts (apart from fur coats) tend to be the domain of men.

Not to derail too much, but where did the grouse foot as jewelry trend begin ?

[Phil]

Although not being able to speak to traditional Highland attitudes, I can say that hereabouts having a dried grouse, pheasant, duck, chicken, or any other foot attached to your clothes would certainly not be something thought to be feminine at all. I live in a very diverse country, so there may be regional and/or cultural exceptions, but generally speaking, animal parts (apart from fur coats) tend to be the domain of men.

Not to derail too much, but where did the grouse foot as jewelry trend begin ?

I actually first remember grouse claw brooches in touristy shops in Ireland back in the 1950's. Yes tourist tat was available even then. But they were always sold as ladies brooches, pinned on cards, and displayed next to other similar tat such as Connemara marble jewellery, shamrock and shillelaghs. But in those days the only kilt pins I can remember were of the large nappy (diaper for the sake of our transatlantic friends) pin variety. All the current Braveheart style swords etc were still to be invented.
I should add that there was no similar market for ladies fashion in the body parts of other animals apart from, perhaps, fox fur stoles and other furry creations. It was obviously never a fashion in your part of the world, hence the misguided perception that such brooches were a part of kilted fashion at any time. There is, of course, no reason whatsoever why anyone should not choose a grouse claw brooch or, indeed, any other type of ladies' jewellery to wear with their kilt. That is provided they realise that such an adornment has never been a feature of kilt-wearing in Scotland and they do so accordingly.

[Riverkilt]

From what I can see of the waistband I'm guessing its a skirt and a fashion tartan.

[Nathan]

From what I can see of the waistband I'm guessing its a skirt and a fashion tartan.

It is certainly a ladies skirt but it's very, very old. Like it said it was my 30 y.o. friend's great, great, grandmother's who lived her whole life in Scotland. It wasn't passed down as just clothing but rather as the matriach's "kilt". It could be a fashion tartan, but it's interesting the amount of reverence that was accorded to what seems to have been just a simple woolen garment...

[Nathan]

I cannot help with the tartan, but your comment about the grouse claw pin has had me thinking. "---------an heirloom"? Well of course it is, but "----of significance to their Scottish culture"? Well again, of course it may well be to the person who bought it, to the person who wore it and to their successors, but in general terms, I am not at all sure that a pin such as you describe could be described in general Scottish terms as a significant part of Scottish culture. In fact many of these grouse claw artifacts were worn as brooches. My mother had several as did many ladies of that era and indeed some men wore ---some may still do so---- them as kilt pins, but whilst you can still see them for sale on occasion, they are not the fashion item that they once were. But a cultural item of significance? Hummmm, I am not so sure.

The item has a sterling silver thistle motif on it and a Topaz which is what I meant when I said culturally significant. Perhaps that language would be a bit strong outside of the context of their own familial perception, so If you prefer I could say culturally symbolic. I hope you won't protest the idea that the thistle is a recognizable symbol of Scotland.

Regarding the gender side of things, this item was used to pin a ladies skirt so it can still be culturally significant even if it's mainly a female item. That said, I have heard the grouse claw mentioned as a popular choice for kilt pins in Scotland long before I saw this one. Case in point, when lamenting that my silver kilt pin was a bit fancy for day attire, Darren Purse of local kilt vendor Cairngorum Scottish Imports mentioned both the grouse claw and the antler (stag horn) as popular kilt pin options for day wear over a year ago to me. He's from Scotland his store is a division of William Glen & Son of Callander, Scotland who have been in the Highland attire business since 1869. This isn't the only time I've run across this.

My few occasions could be viewed as the fallacy of the small sample, but a) when the items are listed on auction sites they are being sold as "kilt pins" not "brooches". b) Some of them appear to be quite old. c) They seem unisex in appearance and are a by product of the hobby of hunting fowl.

I don't claim to be an expert on grouse talon pins here, but the item is recognizably, symbolically and historically Scottish, it belonged to a Scotswoman who brought it to Canada from the old country and whose family have passed it down with "Gran's kilt" ever since.

Scotland is a big country with lots of people making lots of fashion choices. I have a photo of myself with a Scottish Highlander in a recent thread. He's wearing a charcoal day tweed, ecru hose, a semi-dress sporran, and a solid coloured tie and flashes that match his kilt.

I've read on here that such choices would never be made in the Highlands... Just sayin'.

In fact, here's that pic along with the skirt in question AND the kilt pin under discussion.