Colonel in a Highland Regiment

[Nathan]

I think someone has been pulling your leg, Nathan. Uniform is after all uniform and Queens Regulations, like US Army Regulations cover it.

Not all Peers and children of Peers in the British forces become officers.

I was in basic training with a Right Honourable James Golding (son of a Peer); was 'walking out' with a WRAF who was a Right Honourable Lady Jane (but was known as Bubbles); I was in-charge of training a SAC who was a Viscount (in his own right, not a curtsey title). None of them were accorded any exception to the uniform regulations.

Fair point, but the people I heard this from weren't talking about uniform regulations. They were talking about individuals who have achieved the rank of Colonel in a Highland Regiments being entitled to a similar feathers with their civilian Highland attire. The idea being that the Colonel of a Highland Regiment earned similar status to that which a Scottish chieftain inherits.

[figheadair]

Fair point, but the people I heard this from weren't talking about uniform regulations. They were talking about individuals who have achieved the rank of Colonel in a Highland Regiments being entitled to a similar feathers with their civilian Highland attire. The idea being that the Colonel of a Highland Regiment earned similar status to that which a Scottish chieftain inherits.

I've never heard of it and I was one. But then again, I don't wear a bonnet unless it rains and I certainly woudn't wear eagle feathers which are a post-Culloden adoption/affectation.

[Nathan]

I've never heard of it and I was one. But then again, I don't wear a bonnet unless it rains and I certainly woudn't wear eagle feathers which are a post-Culloden adoption/affectation.

This is a really interesting article about feathers in bonnets that I found online. It doesn't mention Colonels, however, it does mention Clan society commissioners in their own jurisdiction which I had not seen.

http://www.clanstrachan.org/trust/li...hers_Agnew.pdf

[Downunder Kilt]

Nathan, I am catching up on posts after being way, and would like to thank you for the newspaper article you linked to. It is the first time I have seen an opinion on the validity of wearing of feathers by those who do not hold a position within the clan itself but within the clan society, presumedly an elected postion. Cheers and thanks

[Nathan]

Nathan, I am catching up on posts after being way, and would like to thank you for the newspaper article you linked to. It is the first time I have seen an opinion on the validity of wearing of feathers by those who do not hold a position within the clan itself but within the clan society, presumedly an elected postion. Cheers and thanks

Glad you liked it, although I should say that I've found plenty of ink spilled with the contrary opinion that this is inappropriate and I think it's safe to say that the more narrow view is by far the more common understanding of the etiquette. Aristrocrats. What are you gonna do?

[OC Richard]

I was looking through the book Scottish Units in The World Wars by Mike Chappell and came across an illustration of

Lieutenant Colonel 5th Seaforth Highlanders 1914

and his cap badge has FOUR feathers on it! Not actual feathers but silver feathers built into the cap badge.

The captions states:

"The figure illustrates a lieutenant-colonel of the 5th (Sutherland and Caithness) Battalion of The Seaforth Highlanders in field uniform. This Territorial unit wore the Sutherland tartan instead of the Seaforth MacKenzie tartan, and had a distinctive bonnet badge behind which the officers of various ranks wore different numbers of silver feathers, in this case four."

Now Mike Chappell is nearly always bang-on, but it is merely an illustration by him. I would like to see a photograph of one of these feathered cap badges being worn in WWI.

[SlackerDrummer]

I've never heard of it and I was one. But then again, I don't wear a bonnet unless it rains and I certainly woudn't wear eagle feathers which are a post-Culloden adoption/affectation.

But isn't all traditional highland attire a post-Culloden adoption?

[OC Richard]

But isn't all traditional highland attire a post-Culloden adoption?

One often hears it said that Highland Dress as it has come down to us is a "Victorian invention". To one person who said that, and who for "evidence" posted a photo of a piper in Full Dress, I responded by taking the entire kit, item by item, and showing that every item was being worn prior to Queen Victoria taking the throne.

About the Culloden cutoff date, note that blue bonnets, small kilts, sporrans, and hose were all worn pre-Culloden and all are still commonly worn today. In fact as you follow kilt fashion from the 18th century to the 20th century the distinctive Highland features evolve much more slowly than the shirt, neckwear, and jacket styles do, the latter tending to follow ordinary European fashion of the period.


Soldiers of The Black Watch c1960



Soldiers of The Black Watch 1739 (pre-Culloden)



What hasn't changed: blue bonnets with red touries, Black Watch tartan kilts (small kilts were known and worn pre-Culloden), leather sporrans, diced hose, buckled shoes (in some orders of dress). What has changed: style of jacket, addition of spats (in some orders of dress).

[Chas]

Thanks for clarifying. But I still think it is fantasy rather than fact. There is no entitlement, only convention and accepted manner of behaviour.

If for no other reason that we are talking about career soldiers, who know 'The Rules'. Three feathers for The Chief; two feathers for a Chieftain; one feather for an armiger. If they were not a Chief, Chieftain nor Armiger, I cannot see them being crass enough to wear feathers.

[Lon Scot Reg Secretary]

Gents,

Chas is correct. All British and Commonwealth Army officers hold the Queen's commission and are therefore gentlemen by right (And an act of parliament, unlike Naval Officers). The status of an Armiger is also a 'noble' one and therefore as 'a gentleman'. Wearing feathers is a tradition in Scottish law and, as Chas says, "The rules (are clear) Three feathers for The Chief; two feathers for a Chieftain; one feather for an armiger". This has nothing to do with Army dress regulations.

Having said that, I am sure that if the Colonel or any other Officer of a Highland Regiment were to apply to The Lord Lyon for a Grant of Arms, I am sure that their status would be taken into consideration.

In days of old, and we are talking 17th, 18th, and early 19th centuries, most Colonels of Scottish regiments WERE Clan Chiefs in their own right, and therefore had the right anyway. Maybe this is where the confusion has started.

Any Commissioned officer who has a grant of Arms can have a pipe banner made and presented to his piper or to the pipe band depending on the regimental tradition. We have many pipers who fly such banners. One side would be the Officer's Arms, and on the other the Regimental badge or crest.

I have heard someone talk about this exact same subject previously, and I was able to put him right. This chap does, however, live in a rather strange, small world of his own with a purple sky and three moons, and dreams up all sorts of stuff like this without any substance.