To bonnet or not to bonnet, that is the question

[MacCathmhaoil]

I think you may be making assumptions, again with regard to the removal of hats in church this instance was not a case of hats being required. No one else kept theirs on nor was his balmoral in any way a religious requirement. Again as I said religious requirements exempted. I was married by a Rabbi so I am familiar with wearing something on your head in a place of worship!

As for the Canadian military they do remove their headdress when entering a building unless under certain circumstances, on parade, under arms or in some case as in MP's while on duty. Traditionally they are very closely aligned to the British military and I believe they too remove their headdress upon entry. You will in all likelihood find most nations military do. In the British military it harkens back to gentlemen's etiquette I believe since all officers were by definition gentlemen. I think you may be trying to read more into what I said than is there.
I can still see no need to wear a hat while sitting down to eat in a restaurant nor becoming indignant when the manager respectfully asks that it be removed. Again perhaps I am missing something?

[Geoff Withnell]

Well, since I wear a hat as a reminder that I am in the Lord's presence, in my mind removing my hat would be a gesture of disrespect, since I would be implying that the Lord was not to be found where I was. When I have occasion to go to a church were removing one's hat is the custom, I try to remember to wear a kippah (skullcap) under my hat, so that I can remove my hat, and remain covered. The kippah is NOT however, a religious article, it's is merely a hat reduced to its bare minimum. I question for you, Sir. As I have stated, if I came to your house, I would follow your custom, in your home, and remove my hat. If you came to my home, would you wear your hat at table, or one of the disposable kippahs I keep on hand, and follow my custom?

Geoff there are I am sure people who's beliefs vary. I was raised with a more old world belief where there were certain rules of etiquette that should be abided by a gentleman. These rules were hard and fast, one did not swear or use coarse language in the presence of a lady, one always held the door open and one always removed ones hat as both a consideration of others and as a sign of respect. While not all of the rules,these are certainly some of the more commonly applied if you will. I respectfully see no need to wear a balmoral or any other hat for that matter while sitting down to dinner in a restaurant. Perhaps I have missed something?
I can recall that even in the military you were obliged to remove your headdress when entering the mess in all but a few cases, again religious requirements exempted. I personally believe that the world might be a better place if there were perhaps a bit more attention paid to courtesy and etiquette. That however is a discussion, the finer points of which are best suited to take place over the aromas of a good single malt!

[Geoff Withnell]

What you persist in missing is that it is my religious custom to keep my head covered at all times, including while in a restaurant. In the military, uniforms are of uniform, and when I was in, I followed the regulations. I don't become indignant if a restaurant manager asks me to remove my headgear. I merely tell him why I am wearing it, and have never been pressed further. I suspect we are sailing into grounds very close if not over the edge of the rules, so I will say no more.

I think you may be making assumptions, again with regard to the removal of hats in church this instance was not a case of hats being required. No one else kept theirs on nor was his balmoral in any way a religious requirement. Again as I said religious requirements exempted. I was married by a Rabbi so I am familiar with wearing something on your head in a place of worship!

As for the Canadian military they do remove their headdress when entering a building unless under certain circumstances, on parade, under arms or in some case as in MP's while on duty. Traditionally they are very closely aligned to the British military and I believe they too remove their headdress upon entry. You will in all likelihood find most nations military do. In the British military it harkens back to gentlemen's etiquette I believe since all officers were by definition gentlemen. I think you may be trying to read more into what I said than is there.
I can still see no need to wear a hat while sitting down to eat in a restaurant nor becoming indignant when the manager respectfully asks that it be removed. Again perhaps I am missing something?

[MacCathmhaoil]

Geoff I think now we may be splitting hairs, again as I have stated "religious requirements exempted" I in no way inferred anything with regard to the religious suitability of any form of headdress other the the balmoral in the specific case I cited. What you choose to wear to signify your religious beliefs is up to you. In the case I cited there was no basis for this individual religious or otherwise to keep his hat on other than poor manners, even those with the individual were embarrassed. I cannot understand when an establishment such as a restaurant, Legion hall or bar clearly states that gentlemen must remove their hats people become indignant when asked to remove it or leave.
I have had over the years to find creative ways to accommodate staff members religious requirements in the workplace. This was always approached with respect and consultation and a desire to accommodate their beliefs. Until Bubba can explain to me the spiritual significance of his John Deere " gimme hat" and how that relates to why he should be exempt from the rules of the dining room / restaurant I'll stand firm.

[OC Richard]

Until Bubba can explain to me the spiritual significance of his John Deere " gimme hat" and how that relates to why he should be exempt from the rules of the dining room / restaurant I'll stand firm.

That's funny!

It's one of the "cultural" things I notice whenever I visit my home state of West Virginia: the men keeping their grimy caps on when eating in a restaurant.

(Not much farming there, so not so many John Deere caps. The caps are often camo and bear the WVU logo, or Remington or other gun company, or 24 or other NASCAR driver's number.)