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2nd August 13, 11:32 PM
#1
 Originally Posted by Domehead
"In Scotland crests have always had a very much less important position than in England. There has been little if any continuity with regard to them, and instances of changes for which caprice would appear to be the only reason are met with in the cases of a large proportion of the chief families in that kingdom. To such a widespread extent has the permissive character been allowed to the crest, that many cases will be found in which each successive matriculation for the head of the house, or for a cadet, has produced a change in the crest, and instances are to be found where the different crests are the only existing differences in the achievements of a number of cadets of the same family. At the present time, little if any objection is ever made to an entire and radical change in the crest--if this is wished at the time of a rematriculation--and as far as I can gather such changes appear to have always been permitted." Ch.21, A Complete Guide to Heraldry, Arthur Charles Fox-Davies, 1909
When quoting Fox-Davies it should be remembered that, despite all of his writings on the subject, he was never a herald.
In Scotland crests assume the status of transmissible badges (hence their use within a strap and buckle by retainers and followers) which explains why various branches of the same family will have dissimilar crests.
[SIZE=1]and at EH6 7HW[/SIZE]
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3rd August 13, 05:10 AM
#2
Yes, Sir. That is why I used the word "transferred". Perhaps I meant transmitted.
JSFMACLJR's follow up query re'd: how crests do not follow the exacting standards of Scottish Heraldry required for matriculation / rematriculation, marshaling & cadency.
I was showing objective sources on the subject, of considerable age (inc: Burke 1884 & Parker 1894) which explain and display the answer you describe.
Slainte,
Domehead
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8th August 13, 10:23 AM
#3
To clarify a bit with regard to crests: while the head of a new branch of a family or clan will usually adopt a new crest, and a matriculant may request a new crest when Lord Lyon acknowledges his differenced arms, many armigers do not take up a new crest, and continue to bear the same crest as their father or grandfather.
Consequently several armigers in the same family will often have the same crest.
This is not to be confused with the concept of a clan badge, where a member wears a metal representation of his chief’s crest on his bonnet. The wearer of such a badge may or may not be an armiger. But an armiger will usually have a badge made of his own crest.
In a badge of this kind, the crest appears on a circular device that is clearly not a strap and buckle. The strap and buckle invariably appear where the crest of a chief or chieftain is worn by a follower.
It has often happened that the College of Arms has required that a crest bear a cadency mark or some other mark of difference, but this is not usual in Scotland.
Regards,
Mike
Last edited by Mike_Oettle; 8th August 13 at 10:24 AM.
The fear of the Lord is a fountain of life.
[Proverbs 14:27]
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17th August 13, 04:50 PM
#4
 Originally Posted by MacMillan of Rathdown
When quoting Fox-Davies it should be remembered that,...
...he was English.
Kenneth Mansfield
NON OBLIVISCAR
My tartan quilt: Austin, Campbell, Hamilton, MacBean, MacFarlane, MacLean, MacRae, Robertson, Sinclair (and counting)
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