Black Watch? Yay or Nay

[PEEDYC]

I am no expert or even close but I think this is the Campbell (family) tartan which the Black Watch was originally based on.

[M. A. C. Newsome]

Yes, that is Black Watch, ancient colors - which is the same tartan as Campbell, ancient colors. And no, it does not appear to be an old kilt.

[MacLowlife]

I am getting to be an old man, but I remember the introduction of ZIP codes - in 1963. The label has a zip code, therefore it can't be any older than 50 years old. I use that as a handy check. Of course, it could be a lot newer.

AFTER FURTHER CHECKING, it is not actually a USPS Zip Code. I can't find any place in the US with the zip code 14262. However, there appears to be a place called TARTANTOWN in Port Coquitlam, BC, where the OP lives. Perhaps the proprietors could explain the significance of the 5 digit sequence. Any help from North of the Border?

Finally, "old" is a relative term. I believe we can agree the kilt was probably made after WWII, but probably before the beginning of the 21st century. To most of us, that means it is "modern" if not quite new. But to a person born in 1986, when I last darkened the door of an institution of higher learning, something made in 1960 might well be "old".

[Tobus]

I could be way off base, but it looks like a new kilt to me. Older kilts usually show some yellowing on the label from age, use, and sweat. That label looks brand-new to me. That, plus the condition of the lining looks like it's never been worn. So if it's an old kilt, it appears to be one that was never worn. Hard to say with only those two photos to go by.

[OC Richard]

Here's the Tartantown site, specifically the kilt page

http://www.tartantown.com/dress_kilts_plaids.html

I don't see anywhere on that site where they give the history of the company.

About value, you can see by Tartantown's kilt page that the new price varies with how much yardage there is in the kilt, the weight of fabric used, etc. You would have to determine if that kilt has handsewn or machine-sewn pleats, how much yardage is in it, and what the weight of the fabric is (9oz, 11oz, 13oz, 16oz).

Values of used kilts are all over the place, as you can see by tracking used kilts on Ebay. Sometimes handsewn 8-yard kilts in perfect condition go for little, between $100 and $300, a fraction of what they cost new.

A distinctive feature of Black Watch (and its derivatives) is the way the pairs of black lines alternate in the blue areas, a single centred pair alternating with two pairs at the edges.

Yes that's "ancient" Black Watch.

[Couper]

The web domain (tartantown.com) was registered in the wee days of the Internet (26-jul-1996) and they have had a site online for nearly that long. An early version (January, 1998) of the site has this statement:

"Tartantown was established in 1976 and has continuously provided quality products at realistic prices."

[Nathan]

I am no expert or even close but I think this is the Campbell (family) tartan which the Black Watch was originally based on.

Or rather, in my opinion the Campbell family tartan was based on the Black Watch since they were so instrumental in establishing the original British Highland Regiments. The use of the standard government set predates the concept of Clan tartans by quite some time.

[usonian]

Yes, that definitely appears to be Black Watch, ancient colors. AKA Campbell (as already mentioned) and also Hunting Grant, Hunting Munro, and Sutherland District. (See Matt's article A Tartan by Any Other Name for more information about shared tartans!) A number of vendors and/or mills list Black Watch and Campbell separately, using modern colors for the former and ancient colors for the latter... but it's the same tartan.

[Grizzled Ian]

I wonder if the notion that it is an old kilt came about through a combination of some or all of these ingredients:
* unfamiliarity with our terminology;
* imprecise thinking; and
* a 'word of mouth/Chinese whispers' process.
"I have an ancient Black Watch kilt" is very easy to misinterpret and thereafter misrepresent.

[HarveyH]

"I have an ancient Black Watch kilt" is very easy to misinterpret and thereafter misrepresent.

Oh Dear, we are back to taxonomy ... I wish firms would avoid the ambiguity and by not putting the colours first except where it is part of the tartan name: Black Watch in Ancient Colours.