Need some help... Highland dancing

**Dixiecat** · 30th January 14, 11:16 AM

. These aren't necessaarily REAL REGISTERED tartans, but fashion variations that the mills carry to sell to dancers. Example:

http://dcdalgliesh.co.uk/dancers.rpy

Wrong. You'll find that practically all dance tartans are REAL REGISTERED tartans. An unregistered dance tartan is an exception, not the rule as you imply. I checked the dance tartans on the link and a full 98% were registered. SOBHD dress code states that the tartan a dancer wears must be a clan, family or district tartan. Colour variations on these tartans are acceptable and are considered real tartans.

For the OP, a heavier weight tartan gives amazing swish when dancing but can be a bit much for younger dancers.
I advocate for traditional tartans, but then I'm a mature dancer who doesn't need a bright pink tartan to entice me to dance. ;). I dance in Drummond of Perth heavyweight tartan. Dress tartans are not required so feel free to choose ANY clan, family or district tartan as outlined in the SOBHD dress code.

You'll find however that most dancers' kilts will be pleated to sett and not stripe. I find that strange when the tartans are so bright and varied that they don't go that extra bit for more flash.

**RockyR** · 31st January 14, 10:58 AM

Originally Posted by Dixiecat

Wrong. You'll find that practically all dance tartans are REAL REGISTERED tartans. An unregistered dance tartan is an exception, not the rule as you imply. I checked the dance tartans on the link and a full 98% were registered. SOBHD dress code states that the tartan a dancer wears must be a clan, family or district tartan. Colour variations on these tartans are acceptable and are considered real tartans.

I stand, quite vehemently corrected. I will say that after a quick search of the tartan names on Dalgliesh's page, I think it's a bit further south than 98%, but the point is taken.

Also, many seem to have been registered just to show that they exist in the dance world. When you read the notes, they're of recently registered items (within the past 30 - 40 years), not as old as some clan tartans (150+ years old):

http://tartanregister.gov.uk/tartanDetails.aspx?ref=846

**Dixiecat** · 31st January 14, 11:09 PM

What has the date of the tartan registration got to do with the legitimacy of a dance tartan? I don't understand the tendency here to downgrade dance tartans. They're neither more or less a tartan as any one that you've currently designed in the last 10 years. At least dance tartans must be based on existing clan, family or district tartans as specified by the SOBHD which puts them in the same range as Hunting, Ancient or Weathered lines of the same tartans. And, makes them more legit than a fantasy tartan such as the R'leyh tartan.

**bonnie heather** · 1st February 14, 08:33 AM

I've made many,many knife pleated kilts and also several kilts with military box pleats, but I've never seen that style worn for highland dancing. I did see a gent doing Scottish country dancing and the swing looked pretty good. But it wouldn't be as spectacular as the way knife pleats fly with highland dancing.
Also, I make kilts for highland dancers with hems, even for adults, because with 11-12 oz tartan, it gives a little extra weight at the bottom for a nice swing.
One way to help keep the costs down is to ask a kilt maker what he/she would charge for labor and maybe buy the tartan fabric separately through them or from someone who is able to get the trade price. Maybe you could get a discount for ordering several kilts. ???

**RockyR** · 1st February 14, 08:42 AM

Originally Posted by Dixiecat

What has the date of the tartan registration got to do with the legitimacy of a dance tartan? I don't understand the tendency here to downgrade dance tartans. They're neither more or less a tartan as any one that you've currently designed in the last 10 years. At least dance tartans must be based on existing clan, family or district tartans as specified by the SOBHD which puts them in the same range as Hunting, Ancient or Weathered lines of the same tartans. And, makes them more legit than a fantasy tartan such as the R'leyh tartan.

Not sure why you think I'm "downgrading" the dance tartans and I'm not trying to pick or enter into an argument. Nowhere did I "downgrade" them. I simply stated that they were created and registered more recently specifically for highland dancers, not as an official approved tartan (necessarily) by the clan chief. In that last sentence, I am making an assumption as I don't believe many clan chiefs have taken a new dancers tartan and officially adopted it as the "dress" tartan for the clan, but I may be wrong and would happily admit so if I am shown examples of a clan chief doing so (i.e. the dance tartan was created and marketed to dancers first, then at a later date, the clan chief approved it).

The dance tartans have "just as much right to exist" and just as much legitimacy as any of the dozens of tartans I've created and registered or the R'Lyeh tartan that Artificer created (I believe it was Scott who designed it). The mill or tartan designer (in the case where it wasn't a mill that designed it) saw a need in the marketplace for new designs and had them registered and sells them. Nothing wrong with that. That's capitalism.

I'm not sure why you have such disdain towards me, but having explained my comments, I will gracefully be bowing out of this discussion.

**Barb T** · 1st February 14, 08:57 AM

I think no one intended offense here, so maybe we can just let it go? There's really good information in this thread, and it would be a shame to have it relegated to the cooling off corner.

**Barb T** · 1st February 14, 09:06 AM

I think some of the confusion comes from how these dancer's tartans are listed in the Register. Here, for example, is the listing for the Dress Purple Cunningham, a very common tartan among dancers and woven by DC Dalgliesh.

Although the tartan name is "Cunningham", the Register lists it as a fashion tartan (see the screen shot below for the full list of categories):

**Dixiecat** · 2nd February 14, 09:51 PM

Originally Posted by RockyR

Not sure why you think I'm "downgrading" the dance tartans and I'm not trying to pick or enter into an argument. Nowhere did I "downgrade" them. I simply stated that they were created and registered more recently specifically for highland dancers, not as an official approved tartan (necessarily) by the clan chief. In that last sentence, I am making an assumption as I don't believe many clan chiefs have taken a new dancers tartan and officially adopted it as the "dress" tartan for the clan, but I may be wrong and would happily admit so if I am shown examples of a clan chief doing so (i.e. the dance tartan was created and marketed to dancers first, then at a later date, the clan chief approved it).

The dance tartans have "just as much right to exist" and just as much legitimacy as any of the dozens of tartans I've created and registered or the R'Lyeh tartan that Artificer created (I believe it was Scott who designed it). The mill or tartan designer (in the case where it wasn't a mill that designed it) saw a need in the marketplace for new designs and had them registered and sells them. Nothing wrong with that. That's capitalism.

I'm not sure why you have such disdain towards me, but having explained my comments, I will gracefully be bowing out of this discussion.

Rocky, I'm at a loss to understand why you've taken this as a personal attack. I've taken many opportunities in the past to defend dress tartans here on this forum. When people make comments that dress tartans are not REAL REGISTERED (your emphasis) and then when proven wrong, make back-handed comments about how recent they have been registered, I tend to get defensive - no matter who says it. A search of my posts will verify my stance on this subject.

There have been examples of clan chiefs who have officially adopted a dress/dance tartan as an official clan 'dance/dress' tartan. One was in fact announced here on Xmarks. The name escapes me at the moment, but again, a search of my posts will find that thread. I'm sure if you would like to research each and every dance tartan you might find several more, but it really doesn't matter to the dance world whether they've been 'officially' claimed or not. On the other hand, I'm sure not every Hunting, Ancient or Weathered clan tartan has been 'officially' claimed either. I don't care. If you like a tartan, go for it.

As for capitalism, you're quite right - the Sobieski brothers and the Vestiarium Scoticum proved that long before any mill designed dance tartan came into existence. ;)

**Barb T** · 3rd February 14, 04:03 AM

Can we please chill about this and stick to sharing information and clarifying inaccuracies without accusation? As I said previously, there is good information in this thread, and it would be a real shame to have this sent to the cooling off corner.

**SemperFyffe** · 3rd February 14, 11:01 AM

Yes, I agree. I would like to thank ALL for the most helpful advice, especially Barb T and Bonnie Heather for addressing some of my main concerns. After reading the posts I feel that perhaps I may not have given enough information in my first post. My four children are beginners yes, but are not very young. They are 16, 13, 12, and 10. Due to their age and size, I don't think a kiltie would suit any of them, so we are stuck with supplying kilts for all. Our dilemma is that none of them really like any of the traditional dance tartans. I don't want to open up another can of worms here, just stating our preference. If we have to invest in a kilt, I want it to be something that they will want to wear even when not dancing. Their instructor recommended the Edinburgh Dress Tartan which everyone seems to like as it is not quite as dramatic in contrast as most dress/dance tartans but still provides good contrast in colors for some flash.

As to the pleat, logically it seems to me that the military box pleat would be the first choice with the amount of flash and swish that it provides. WHY is it not well suited for highland dance? I KNOW that traditionally highland dancers have kilts in traditional dancers tartan pleated to the sett and a knife pleat, but I don't understand why. Is there a limitation or is it just simply because that is what everyone does? Please understand I am new to this and just seeking knowledge, not controversy. Thanks again.