Which Tartan Up Date

[hag]

I've dug back in to my roots, from my grandfather is Scotland,my grandmother is Ireland so my dads side is Scotland,Ireland,England,and USA. So my question is which tartan to make? my mothers side is so far England,and Germany.

My dad and grandfather track our family out of Scotland so I'll be going with Ross tartan kilt ( Red Modern ). My dads mother is Moss this is Irish, so I'll also get an Irish tartan kilt under Moss. I'm still working on mother side mostly Irish, and Scottish I will narrow her side down even more, so I can get the right tartan kilt for her side.

[Mikilt]

I've dug back in to my roots, from my grandfather is Scotland,my grandmother is Ireland so my dads side is Scotland,Ireland,England,and USA. So my question is which tartan to make? my mothers side is so far England,and Germany.

Maybe you could narrow it down a bit for us. Is there a particular name or place in Scotland? Any particular county in Ireland?

[artificer]

If you can't trace your family to a specific clan there are any number of 'universal' tartans which are positively lovely.

Isle of Skye


Holyrood


Caledonia


Earl of St. Andrews (which originally was a restricted tartan - at least apocryphally)


Culloden


ith:

[ASinclair]

What is your surname?

[TheOfficialBren]

If Culloden had been an option I would have picked it for my Universal Casual. Alas, it's not available in P/V.

I'd go with the nearest Scottish connection and be done with it, mate. No need to agonise over it.

[hag]

That's Haggerty on the surname.
Thanks Hag

[ASinclair]

That's Haggerty on the surname.
Thanks Hag

Haggerty appears to be an Irish name.

[Domehead]

Dr. Philip D. Smith Jr., Ph. D. Tartan For Me: MacNab & Ross - A dubious source. The tartans are authentic. "Ross" is part of the "Prince's Own..." block, which Mr. MacDonald will tell much more about. The MacNab actually exists as an 1831 tabulation, as well as a William Wilson & Sons of Bannockburn production from an C18th portrait - each individual, sharing only colourway. Again, Mr. MacDonald & Mr. Newsome can shed far more light on this than I can. You must vet your "Haggerty" against the connection to either Family.

Collins Guide Scots Kith & Kin: Ross & C16th Perthshire - Slightly better source. The tartans are authentic. We already spoke of the "Ross" tartan. The "Perthshire District" sett is shared with the Drummond Family. It is said to be a structural variant of the Stewart group, dated to at least 1819. Again, Mr. MacDonald & Mr. Newsome can shed far more light on this than I can. Interesting secondary source for Clan Ross connection. You must vet your "Haggerty" against the connection to Clan Ross or the Perthshire Area.

George Black's Surnames of Scotland (1946): A very good source for etymological information. It includes, in its entries, actual corroboration of transliterative spellings and phonetic attempts over time. You must understand "Haggerty" as an Anglicized version of a Gaelic (perhaps Irish) name (perhaps patronymic). This leads directly to transliteration and phonetic spellings - all variations from C11th "Hagart" to C19th "Haggerty", which was 11% of the Perthshire population at that time.

You know your name, be it "Haggerty" or another, more distinctly Scottish name. You know your Scots connection. It seems you are attempting to narrow that which elicits the greatest warmth. With great trepidation, may I suggest starting with this bit and tempering down to a place (Perthshire?) or Clan (Ross or MacNab?) based on something real (Historic?) that you feel (the family you represent now).

Ryan M. Liddell
aka Domehead

[figheadair]

Gosh, where to start. Perhaps with the name Haggart, which is in most cases is not related to Haggarty despite the similarity in spelling: think of Ross and Rose as a parallel. Haggart is still a well-known name in my part of Perthshire but the name appears to be Old English in origin - there's a list of resources on the name here.

In Scotland the Irish surname Haggarty/Heggarty etc is mainly found in the south-west, principally in Ayrshire. It seems likely that Smith and the author of the Collins book conflated the two surnames Haggart and Haggarty without any real evidence. With that in mind, I cannot agree that Ross, MacNab or Perthshire would be the most appropriate tartan for most if not all Haggartys. If an individual did have Scottish roots then the Ayrshire District Tartan would be a more logical choice. Interestingly it was designed by Phil Smith particularly for Ayrshire families and it's surprising that he did not include it as the obvious choice.

[Domehead]

Mr. MacDonald,

Initially, thanks for contributing.

Two things:
1. Your information is exactly why I solicited your, and others input. I know "Nathan" does quite a bit o' etymological research as well.
2. I agree, re: conflation, hence my use of question marks and the terms "transliteration" and "phonetic".
Blacks includes distinct entries for Haggart & Haggarty...

Haggart: A corruption of Mactaggart, q.v. The name was not uncommon in Perthshire in the late sixteenth and seventeenth centuries. John Haggart is recorded in Perth in 1595 (RPC., V, p. 651), and Haggart was portioner of Dulgarthill near Dunkela in 1598. John Haggart and William Haggar appear in Eister Keppet (Caputh) in 1618 (ibid. II, p. 368), and William Hagart, called Long William, in Eister Capeth was slain in 1019 (ibid., XII, p. 78).

Haggarty: Of recent introduction from Ireland. Woulfe explains the name as from 0’hEigcertaigh or O’hEigeartaigh, ‘descendant of Eigceartach' (unjust).

Smith's accompanying essays advise not to make a meal of a single letter. But, in this instance, a single letter appears the difference between an Anglicized Scots Gaelic Patronymic and an Irish (Gaelic) transliteration... to say nothing of the source material you've provided.

Again, the OP must vet his "Haggerty" against material at his disposal, ultimately making a choice that feels most correct. My contention, and I believe yours as well, is the OP and others, do so based on something real or historic rather than fanciful. At least, in the beginning. Otherwise, one runs risk of the connection eroding as the novelty wanes.

Ryan