Please help identify my family coat of arms

[TheOfficialBren]

I may be wrong but I have heard it said that there is no such thing as a "family" coat of arms. I believe that arms are granted to individuals and in some cases may be bequeathed to an inheritor.

[anguilla1980]

I may be wrong but I have heard it said that there is no such thing as a "family" coat of arms. I believe that arms are granted to individuals and in some cases may be bequeathed to an inheritor.

You are technically correct I believe, hence why I mentioned I wish to apply for a matriculation of arms, IF I can figure out to whom the coat of arms was granted to and if they are a direct relation, which I also mentioned was my intent.

If you are referring to my thread title without having read the post, then I only phrased it that way because I wished to emphasize how it had been inaccurately passed down to me in my families history, also as I mentioned in my post.

[S Mitchell]

Welcome to Xmarks!

I don't know much at all about heraldry, but doing a google search of the mottos, it looks like your family's coat of arms is maybe related to the Scrymgeour and Wedderburn arms.

Also, not for nothing, Robert II is also my 18th times great grandfather (if the genealogy I've found is accurate). We're far flung cousins!

[anguilla1980]

Welcome to Xmarks!

I don't know much at all about heraldry, but doing a google search of the mottos, it looks like your family's coat of arms is maybe related to the Scrymgeour and Wedderburn arms.

Also, not for nothing, Robert II is also my 18th times great grandfather (if the genealogy I've found is accurate). We're far flung cousins!

Well hello cousin haha! I suspect 18 generations on there are many of us!

Far as the motto, I found that too. I have no one even close to those names in my ancestry though, but hey, perhaps the coat of arms has nothing to do with anyone in my ancestry anyway, that's what I'm here to find out! However I also believe that could have been a somewhat common motto as well. We shall see.

Alex

[Chas]

Hello 92GTA,

What we are talking about here is Scottish heraldry. They have a precise and complicated system of differencing the arms for each generation. Any speculation here, would be guesswork at the very best.

Lord Lyon is the person in the end who will make any decision. Make a copy of all your documentation (in hard copy), with the tree and send it to Lyon Clerk at -

The Court of the Lord Lyon
HM New Register House
Edinburgh
EH1 3YT

And ask your questions. The question you want answered is "Can I get arms matriculated off these arms?"

The current cost of a new grant is £2,336, but the cost of matriculation of a previous grant, including shield, crest and motto is £1,117.

Be aware though that you will only get the arms (with whatever differencing), IF YOUR SURNAME IS THE SAME. I put that in capitals, because it is the most important. If your surname is different, you will not get those arms or any derivative of them. In Scotland, arms go with the name - regardless of any other circumstances.

Their email address is -

lyonoffice@scotland.gsi.gov.uk

And their website is -

http://www.lyon-court.com/lordlyon/221.185.html

It is always better to contact them first, before getting your hopes up.

[Calgacus]

The roses in the 1st & 4th quarters do indeed suggest a connection with the name Montrose (Graham).

http://www.cracroftspeerage.co.uk/on...ntrose1707.htm

John Graham (Bonnie Dundee) was best pals with my patrilinear ancestor, the Bold Pitcur, who died alongside him at Killiecrankie.

[duke_19_62]

I also did a Google search of the motto, and found these. Look like the source of the quarters on your drawing. While the one is labeled, the other,the lion, is Scrymgeour.

[Calgacus]

It would appear that the arms are those of the Scrymgeour-Wedderburns, Earls of Dundee until 1668.

"Bonnie Dundee" was created 1st Viscount Dundee in 1688, with no family connection to the previous Earls that I can see.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clan_Wedderburn

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earl_of_Dundee

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bonnie_Dundee

http://www.heraldry-online.org.uk/scrymgeour.html

*Edit* it would appear that the motto is a combination of both family's mottoes, and the supporters are silver (white) greyhounds with red collars, not panthers.

[Pleater]

The crown is - technically - the coronet of an earl, with strawberry leaves and 'pearls' the white or silver knobs on the spikes.

Anne the Pleater :ootd:

[anguilla1980]

Ok, is this version more accurate? I changed helms and the supporters to white, then I looked up images of Earl Coronets and updated that as well.

Thanks everyone for your comments and assistance! This is really exciting, especially the fact this has now been proven to have been the actual coat of arms for John Graham 1st Viscount Dundee like our family stories always said!

The original wood carving I have of this coat of arms the drawing is made from is very old and a foot of one of the greyhounds has been broken and lost to time but other than that, it's in very good shape I think. If only our family bible were in better condition too. I'm afraid to even take it out and open it but I think I may have to so I can figure out how the Clavers that came to America were related to John Graham and how we ended up with all of this stuff.

So I've done some research on estate forfeitures and I found this site which as a full text of all Scottish estates ever forfeited for treason, http://www.archive.org/stream/select...lrich_djvu.txt and this is NOT one of them thankfully! Looks like it was "forfeited" because no heir apparent could be found because they were in America evidently! Dang how can I get it back haha?!?!?! I'm lucky enough to be a British citizen (first in 300yrs) by birth but my surname has been altered. My father used to joke about legally changing it back once we could prove all of it.