Two Telling comments? The Answer Perhaps?

[Manxstralian]

But for the vast majority of Scots, these clan societies etc. are totally irrelevant.

Aren't the vast majority of Scot from the Lowlands? Perhaps that has an impact.

Cheers,

Cameron

[Ron Abbott]

Mr. Abbott,

Your MO seems to conflate a highly subjective opinion with Longitudinal Sociological Analytics. Then, when confronted with contrarian experiences or evidence, either regress or succumb to the psychological phenomena "preconception". Through your contributions, I'm not quite sure what your intention is?

Ryan M Liddell

Based on personal experience....quite a lot of it in fact. Not preconception but reality.
My intentions? There are none, other to let others know that the Scotland they may believe exists today, largely doesn't.

Where do preconceptions lie. Perhaps with those that for whatever reason believe that the fairy tale is genuine.

And your problem with that, if any; is exactly what?

And by the way, mere 'Ron' or even the full name would have perhaps been more appropriate than what (albeit at face value) appears a much more aggressive 'Mr.'

[Ron Abbott]

Aren't the vast majority of Scot from the Lowlands? Perhaps that has an impact.

Cheers,

Cameron

It may well do. The fact that they are largely city dwellers who work and do things in a similar manner as many other places in the modern hi-tech, world may also contribute to it.

[CeilidhDoc]

I really can't speak for Creagdhubh so I will let him speak for himself, but I think if you go through his many posts on this forum you will find that he has a fairly close relationship with his family in Scotland and has many photos of himself with his clan chief to show that for them the relationship would appear quite relevant. I agree that this is not so common, which is why I used the word unique to describe his vantage point on things highland.

Personally I have found a great many of his posts to be both knowledgable and relevant to wearing the kilt in the modern world, both in Scotland and in North America.

I did not mean to drag him into a discussion against his will however. So for that I must apologize in advance of any commentary he may or may not have later in this thread.

Slàinte

[Manxstralian]

And by the way, mere 'Ron' or even the full name would have perhaps been more appropriate than what (albeit at face value) appears a much more aggressive 'Mr.'

I'm sure no disrespect was meant Ron,

If you read through Mr Liddell's posts, you'll find that's how he addresses people when their last name is obvious, I'm sure it's a gesture of respect, not aggression.

Cheers,

Cameron

[California Highlander]

I suppose adopting the 'Duncan look' (Monarch of the Glen) wouldn't be too bad, at least he wasn't covered in clan this, clan that and clan bloody everything else!

This is my general "look" when out. I just wear the kilt. No clan items, no bonnet, and a regular jacket if it's windy or raining, leather jacket for the pub, jumper/sweater if it's cold. I have never worn a button-front "western" style shirt as Duncan did in one episode of MotG, but other than that...it's easy and comfortable.

They are mildly eccentric.

folk generally regarded as eccentrics...

And I probably as seen as mildly eccentric.

[Nathan]

Ron,

If I understand you correctly, you seem to think that those abroad believe in a fairytale caricature of Scotland that includes clans, heather, thistles, whisky, haggis, kilts, Gaelic, glens, pipes, heavy events and that people don't understand that Scotland is a modern 21st Century society. Am I right?

While on the contrary, I think that most people grasp that modernity exists in Scotland as it does everywhere. We've all seen Trainspotting and have met the rabid, "what team do you support, then?" Scots footie fan at the pubs of our cities.

The romantic traditionalists who try to maintain threatened aspects of a once proud, distinct culture in the face of Globalization are not the majority here or there.

Most of the MacWhatevers abroad couldn't give two shakes about their clan either.

But some Scots and expats feel that the culture doesn't need to die just because the calendar reads 2014 and that it is the people who decide which traditions, if any, they will pass on and which ones they will discard.

You mock the chiefs' traditions of feathers, day plaids, cromachs and other traditional items whereas I respect them for carrying them on. They are as grand today as ever they were.

Perhaps your piping is just as silly to some Scottish rock fans as my tartan car blanket is to you.

Maybe if more Scots and Scots descendants within and without Scotland stood up for what makes us unique and demanded we bring it with us into the next century instead of rushing to assimilate to the Anglo-American McStarbuck's bland globalized corporate consumer iCulture proclaiming that to hold onto anything else is living in a fairytale from the past, everyone's grand children might just be grateful we did.

[TheOfficialBren]

My sister is quite active within the Cherokee nation. She is uninterested in our Highland roots. She's more likely to be found at a pow-wow or other Cherokee nation function than the Highland Games or a ceilidh. I respect that.
I am not terribly interested in our Cherokee roots or involved in the tribal activities (but I respect and understand it). I'm more comfortable at a ceilidh or the Highland Games than a pow-wow. She respects that.

It is people like my sister who insure that our traditional beliefs and practises are maintained for future generations.
It is people like Nathan and Kyle (I dare not throw myself into this category for fear of overstepping my bounds as a newbie but perhaps one day when I get it 'right') who aid in preserving the Scottish culture for future generations.

Does this make sense?

Do we see some folk wearing feather bonnets at Cherokee pow-wows (completely the wrong tribe, by the way)? Yup! Sure do. Do we marginalise them and treat them like dirt or talk crap about them behind their backs and snigger at their folly? No. It's just not done. We respect the culture and part of that means embracing our fellow humans as brothers and sisters. The First Nations Peoples (Native Americans) believe in connection rather than disconnection.

It is sometimes viewed by the ignorant as quaint or strange. It is a very organic worldview and we embrace the Cherokee diaspora feom around the nation and around the world (yes, there are many descendants of the Cherokee nation outwith the United States).

We yearn for this connection. We feel it. We live it. We embrace it.

The Cherokee Nation has many deep, deep roots with the Scottish people. In fact during the trail of tears, one of (if not the) darkest chapters in the history of our people our ranking chief was a Cherokee-Scot. Historical accounts are quite firm in stating that he was equally rooted in both cultures and the Cherokee people embraced him and his values.

I can relate to this man being of both Scottish AND Cherokee descent.

On the face of it I prefer the aesthetics of my family's Highland roots...but I have a deep respect for our Cherokee roots as well.

Maybe this is what *appears* to be "lost" (for lack of a more ample, sufficient word) in Scotland today?

There is little resentment amongst the Cherokee for past ills. We buried that tomahawk long ago. Maybe Scotland needs, HUMBLY submitted, to bury the claymore here?

Anglo-America (specifically English, not the PC misuse of "Anglo") sometimes has an odd relationship with Native America. There's a bit of over-compensation. With one foot in each stirrup I get it. It does no good to maintain the pain and hurt...but we shouldn't relish it or dwell on it.

Culloden was long ago. Let the dead rest. Let the hurts heal. Perhaps Scotland feels the same way about such things? We do not dwell on the trail of tears but we do not forget.

Forgiveness and understanding go a long way.

The kinship may however be stretched long past the breaking point and obliterated. Maybe we need to accept that, too?

If I misspoke I sincerely apologise. I truly want to understand and learn, my friends.

Sorry for the novel. This is a very serious issue and it merits our attention and respect.

[Manxstralian]

My sister is quite active within the Cherokee nation. She is uninterested in our Highland roots. She's more likely to be found at a pow-wow or other Cherokee nation function than the Highland Games or a ceilidh. I respect that.
I am not terribly interested in our Cherokee roots or involved in the tribal activities (but I respect and understand it). I'm more comfortable at a ceilidh or the Highland Games than a pow-wow. She respects that.

It is people like my sister who insure that our traditional beliefs and practises are maintained for future generations.
It is people like Nathan and Kyle (I dare not throw myself into this category for fear of overstepping my bounds as a newbie but perhaps one day when I get it 'right') who aid in preserving the Scottish culture for future generations.

Does this make sense?

Do we see some folk wearing feather bonnets at Cherokee pow-wows (completely the wrong tribe, by the way)? Yup! Sure do. Do we marginalise them and treat them like dirt or talk crap about them behind their backs and snigger at their folly? No. It's just not done. We respect the culture and part of that means embracing our fellow humans as brothers and sisters. The First Nations Peoples (Native Americans) believe in connection rather than disconnection.

It is sometimes viewed by the ignorant as quaint or strange. It is a very organic worldview and we embrace the Cherokee diaspora feom around the nation and around the world (yes, there are many descendants of the Cherokee nation outwith the United States).

We yearn for this connection. We feel it. We live it. We embrace it.

The Cherokee Nation has many deep, deep roots with the Scottish people. In fact during the trail of tears, one of (if not the) darkest chapters in the history of our people our ranking chief was a Cherokee-Scot. Historical accounts are quite firm in stating that he was equally rooted in both cultures and the Cherokee people embraced him and his values.

I can relate to this man being of both Scottish AND Cherokee descent.

On the face of it I prefer the aesthetics of my family's Highland roots...but I have a deep respect for our Cherokee roots as well.

Maybe this is what *appears* to be "lost" (for lack of a more ample, sufficient word) in Scotland today?

There is little resentment amongst the Cherokee for past ills. We buried that tomahawk long ago. Maybe Scotland needs, HUMBLY submitted, to bury the claymore here?

Anglo-America (specifically English, not the PC misuse of "Anglo") sometimes has an odd relationship with Native America. There's a bit of over-compensation. With one foot in each stirrup I get it. It does no good to maintain the pain and hurt...but we shouldn't relish it or dwell on it.

Culloden was long ago. Let the dead rest. Let the hurts heal. Perhaps Scotland feels the same way about such things? We do not dwell on the trail of tears but we do not forget.

Forgiveness and understanding go a long way.

The kinship may however be stretched long past the breaking point and obliterated. Maybe we need to accept that, too?

If I misspoke I sincerely apologise. I truly want to understand and learn, my friends.

Sorry for the novel. This is a very serious issue and it merits our attention and respect.

Nicely said mate!

Cheers,

Cameron

[Jock Scot]

But for the vast majority of Scots, these clan societies etc. are totally irrelevant.

I am afraid that I can't help but agree.