A STARZ Original Series From Executive Producer Ronald D. Moore: Outlander

[figheadair]

I've come somewhat late to this thread but.......

Despite the fact that Outlander is purely and quite obviously a work of fiction, hopefully, the attention to detail is present. I am curious what the rabble thinks.

Lead characters, Claire Randall Fraser (played by Caitriona Balfe) and Jamie Fraser (played by Sam Heughan)

Photo used with kind permission by STARZ.

Fell at the first tartan hurdle I'm afraid. Not only is the tartan historically inaccurate but the plaid is made from double width cloth with an unfinished edge rather than a selvedge. Cheap and cheerful but oh so wrong.

Yet, I think the Fraser tartan in the reproduction colours achieves that look quite well.

But of course they are historically inaccurate too - a D.C. Dalgliesh invention.

The man's tartan looks to me very much like the the MacKay Reproduction as woven by D.C.Dalgliesh.

It's a new design which has just come to the STR Advisory Group for comment as part of the Registration process. A classic example of cart before horse - what will they do if we reject it!

Regarding earlier questions about the tartan being worn, and Fraser or MacKenzie:
From my reading of the history of tartan, I seem to recall that most agree that before the Ban on wearing of tartan, after Culloden, there were no such thing as uniform "clan tartans", that most Scots, in the Highlands, wore mostly whatever the local weavers wove. Most of those tartans were also made with locally available dyestuffs ( probably mostly plant based dyes). I also seem to recall that what few written accounts were made, commented upon the tartans as also blending in with the local plants, and thus acting as a form of camouflage.

Without going completely off topic, this is not the case. Tartan per se was never banned and all the surviving examples of Culloden era tartans are dyed with imported dyestuffs. The camouflage idea is very much a Victorian myth and not borne out by evidence or tactical practicalities.

Whilst it would be inaccurate as you say for them to have used the post 1820s "clan tartans", I believe that tartans of the period were probably rather more colourful than those used in Outlander. The painting below was painted in 1746 by D. Morier and he used prisoners from Culloden as his models. None of the tartans are identifiable with modern tartans, but they are decidedly bright and contain a lot of red.

culloden-illustration-460.jpg

Absolutely right, certainly as far as the gentry were concerned. Red was a status symbol which is why so many chose to be painted in it.

I have read on different occasions, that the English army used red coates because the red dye was cheap.

Not really. The choice of colour was about uniformity and being able to identify your side form the opposition in the midst of a black powder engagement when visibility was very poor. The French, the old enemy, wore blue so the British chose another colour that would stand out. The red of the soldiers' coats was dyed with Madder, the officers' with cochineal which was the most expensive natural dye of the time.

[Carlo]

figheadair, as always very interessting.

...
Not really. The choice of colour was about uniformity and being able to identify your side form the opposition in the midst of a black powder engagement when visibility was very poor. The French, the old enemy, wore blue so the British chose another colour that would stand out. The red of the soldiers' coats was dyed with Madder, the officers' with cochineal which was the most expensive natural dye of the time.

Is there really no page on Wiki one can trust

The adoption and continuing use of red by most British/English soldiers after the Restoration (1660) was the result of circumstances rather than policy, including the relative cheapness of red dyes,,

Red was by no means universal at first, with grey and blue coats also being worn.
...

[Lodrorigdzin]

Madder or "Turkish" red

http://www.colorantshistory.org/MadderRed.html

I found out last weekend that an area near where I live (Rotterdam) was well known for its madder cultivation and export.

[Liam]

"Without going completely off topic, this is not the case. Tartan per se was never banned and all the surviving examples of Culloden era tartans are dyed with imported dyestuffs. The camouflage idea is very much a Victorian myth and not borne out by evidence or tactical practicalities."

It has been my understanding that it was the wearing of the tartan that was banned by the 1746 Act of Proscription

Abolition and Proscription of the Highland Dress 19 George II, Chap. 39, Sec. 17, 1746:

That from and after the first day of August, One thousand, seven hundred and forty-six, no man or boy within that part of Britain called Scotland, other than such as shall be employed as Officers and Soldiers in His Majesty's Forces, shall, on any pretext whatever, wear or put on the clothes commonly called Highland clothes (that is to say) the Plaid, Philabeg, or little Kilt, Trowse, Shoulder-belts, or any part whatever of what peculiarly belongs to the Highland Garb; and that no tartan or party-coloured plaid of stuff shall be used for Great Coats or upper coats, and if any such person shall presume after the said first day of August, to wear or put on the aforesaid garment or any part of them, every such person so offending ... For the first offence,shall be liable to be imprisoned for 6 months, and on the second offence, to be transported to any of His Majesty's plantations beyond the seas, there to remain for the space of seven years.

[figheadair]

"Without going completely off topic, this is not the case. Tartan per se was never banned and all the surviving examples of Culloden era tartans are dyed with imported dyestuffs. The camouflage idea is very much a Victorian myth and not borne out by evidence or tactical practicalities."

It has been my understanding that it was the wearing of the tartan that was banned by the 1746 Act of Proscription

Abolition and Proscription of the Highland Dress 19 George II, Chap. 39, Sec. 17, 1746:

That from and after the first day of August, One thousand, seven hundred and forty-six, no man or boy within that part of Britain called Scotland, other than such as shall be employed as Officers and Soldiers in His Majesty's Forces, shall, on any pretext whatever, wear or put on the clothes commonly called Highland clothes (that is to say) the Plaid, Philabeg, or little Kilt, Trowse, Shoulder-belts, or any part whatever of what peculiarly belongs to the Highland Garb; and that no tartan or party-coloured plaid of stuff shall be used for Great Coats or upper coats, and if any such person shall presume after the said first day of August, to wear or put on the aforesaid garment or any part of them, every such person so offending ... For the first offence,shall be liable to be imprisoned for 6 months, and on the second offence, to be transported to any of His Majesty's plantations beyond the seas, there to remain for the space of seven years.

So where does it say that tartan was banned? '....and that no tartan or party-coloured plaid of stuff shall be used for Great Coats or upper coats is not a ban on tartan but a particular use of tartan.

[frank_a]

To get us back on topic, I watched shows 2, 3 & 4 yesterday afternoon and very much enjoyed it. I am continually amazed at how good a job they did capturing the book, and find the characters eerily close to those developed by the author, particularly Clare and Jamie. I also get a kick out of how they use the same actors for Frank and Jack Randall and the good maid Mrs Fitz. I always try and have a wee dram during the viewing, and often find myself laughing and pointing out tidbits to the wee lass, who was the one that got me interested in the book series. It is a tough series to read when yer a workin stiff, that's fer sure!

Slainte,

Frank

[Liam]

So where does it say that tartan was banned? '....and that no tartan or party-coloured plaid of stuff shall be used for Great Coats or upper coats is not a ban on tartan but a particular use of tartan.

If you re-read my post you will see that I said wearing of the tartan was banned, not tartan itself.

But back on topic, I watched episode 2 last evening.

[Terry1948]

I watched episode 2 last night, and quite enjoyed it (although not all the commercials -- good grief, there are a lot! -- thanks goodness for the ability to record). Some of the previews of the next episode look like some minor deviation from the books, but I'm okay with that so long as the story line keeps close. The acting is good, the photography is quite special, and I did appreciate the piping.

[figheadair]

If you re-read my post you will see that I said wearing of the tartan was banned, not tartan itself.

But back on topic, I watched episode 2 last evening.

Sorry, but I have to disagree. The wearing of tartan was not banned. Highland clothes and specifically some tartan clothes but not all.

[Carlo]

If you re-read my post you will see that I said wearing of the tartan was banned, not tartan itself.
...

Sorry, but I have to disagree. The wearing of tartan was not banned. Highland clothes and specifically some tartan clothes but not all.

I think it's the time, again, we have to mention, that plaid is used differently in the UK and across the pond.
The plaid refers to the great kilt, not tartan fabric.

At least that was my understanding and it's one of the problems in intercontinental discussions that lead and have lead to arguements on this forum.

By the way, I enjoy the series very much.