Tradition and Change

[Laird_M]

Nathan,
A very well thought out and thought provoking post.I heartily agree with your comments.

One question though regarding traditions. As you say traditions are born and evolve constantly, so in years to come, how do the Rabble think wearing 'utility' kilts will be viewed? Will they still be seen as keeping the 'ancient' tradition of kilt wearing and Scottish culture alive? Will wearing such kilts, be they denim, leather, or what have you, be seen as a 21st century tradition mirroring the older traditions?

As you can see, your post has provoked my own thoughts...

[bwat]

One question though regarding traditions. As you say traditions are born and evolve constantly, so in years to come, how do the Rabble think wearing 'utility' kilts will be viewed? W

My money is on utility kilts being quite ephemeral. In 100 years time we'll still have tartan kilts but nobody will know what a utility kilt is.

In more recent times, the kilt is a symbol of continuity with those times. Tartan has evolved into a visual representation of community. Primarily, it is an expression of the bonds of kinship between fellows of a clan, but it is also representative of many other types of community.

It's the national dress of Scotland. The highland clan thing was the progenitor but the "kilt as a Scottish thing" has become bigger than the "kilt as a Highland thing". This is quite amazing as we all know the attitude towards highlanders that was common among lowlanders in times past, and that lowlanders should adopt the "savage's" dress as their national dress is not something I've seen in other countries. I don't think the majority of Scots care too much about the history of it all and as can be seen with the tartan army, it's not taken too seriously.

[Grunthos]

My money is on utility kilts being quite ephemeral. In 100 years time we'll still have tartan kilts but nobody will know what a utility kilt is.

Yes, that's possible.

I bet that more that one person in 1750 said something like that about the fèileadh beag, because everyone "knew" that the "real" kilt was the feileadh mòr.

[Mel1721L]

What about non Scots kilt wearers such as those from the Isle of Mann, Cornwall, Wales etc. They have no tradition.

[Nathan]

What about non Scots kilt wearers such as those from the Isle of Mann, Cornwall, Wales etc. They have no tradition.

In response to that, I refer you to my original post.

A genetic connection to this culture is not essential to participate. When one enjoys the music or wears the clothing of the Highland Scot, one is standing in solidarity with that culture. One way to ensure that the solidarity is authentic is by following the lead of the Highland kilt wearers themselves and wearing traditionally made kilts in a traditional manner.

[bwat]

In response to that, I refer you to my original post.

A genetic connection to this culture is not essential to participate. When one enjoys the music or wears the clothing of the Highland Scot, one is standing in solidarity with that culture. One way to ensure that the solidarity is authentic is by following the lead of the Highland kilt wearers themselves and wearing traditionally made kilts in a traditional manner.

I think this is a bit iffy. My cousin, a lowlander, married a highland laddie born and bred and we all went to get fitted at a kilt hire shop for the wedding. This was maybe 20 years ago so you can see where this is going regarding dress. They still live in the highlands and honestly to this lowlander he's as highland laddie as it gets (he works as head forester on an estate in Inverness-shire). You'll either have to accept ghillie brogues and white hose as authentic or make your definition of highland Scot a bit more selective.

[Domehead]

Some of Nathan's cogent points may be understood in the following context:

Jacques Derrida & "anti-defining" (my term) or difference v. differa'nce (his phrase). Derrida, 1960's philosopher, developed Deconstruction, which I've discussed functionally here before.

Derrida's comprehension of "blank"-text (context or outsidetext) in combination with Edward Sapir's essay, On Fashion, should give real insights into the diachronic value of meaning, impression, expression & culture.

I can't go further today, as I'm finalizing an etymological, morphological and tartanological preparation on the surname "Childers" for a member.
These were the two men whom came to my mind while reading the posts.

Ryan

[Nathan]

Nathan,
A very well thought out and thought provoking post.I heartily agree with your comments.

One question though regarding traditions. As you say traditions are born and evolve constantly, so in years to come, how do the Rabble think wearing 'utility' kilts will be viewed? Will they still be seen as keeping the 'ancient' tradition of kilt wearing and Scottish culture alive? Will wearing such kilts, be they denim, leather, or what have you, be seen as a 21st century tradition mirroring the older traditions?

As you can see, your post has provoked my own thoughts...

I think that depends on whether the utility style kilts are adopted by the Highlanders or, more broadly, the Scots. At the moment, they are mostly worn by Americans. They have been adopted as a symbol of the counterculture featuring in punk rock, hippie and goth fashion to some degree. So far, the Scots haven't really taken ownership of this type of garment.

I certainly can't predict the future but regardless of the answer to your query, this is the Traditionally Made Kilts and How to Wear Them subforum, so I think the utility kilts conversation is a bit outside of scope.

[Calgacus]

I think that depends on whether the utility style kilts are adopted by the Highlanders or, more broadly, the Scots. At the moment, they are mostly worn by Americans. They have been adopted as a symbol of the counterculture featuring in punk rock, hippie and goth fashion to some degree. So far, the Scots haven't really taken ownership of this type of garment.

I certainly can't predict the future but regardless of the answer to your query, this is the Traditionally Made Kilts and How to Wear Them subforum, so I think the utility kilts conversation is a bit outside of scope.

Personally, I think it unlikely that Scots will adopt utility style kilts. The reason I say this is because by and large, if a Scot is going to wear a kilt, he wants it to reflect his cultural heritage, and it will therefore most likely be a traditional tartan kilt. I have seen a few goth/rock types wearing kilts in dark black & grey tartans, but that's about as far as it goes. I would imagine that to wear a utility type kilt could possibly even be seen as a deliberate rejection of one's Scottish culture.

To illustrate, one of our former First Ministers famously wore a Howie Nicholsby pin-stripe kilt with no sporran and what appears to be a jeans waist to a fashion show in new York. It caused quite a storm here, with one paper describing it as "toe-curling", and it is often referred to as "THAT kilt". He has since said that he is "haunted" by the image.

We can be quite a conservative bunch at times.