Got my first pair of ghillie brogues

[pbutts]

Much better on the bonnet. what I find helpful is to use the left hand in the back to make sure the ribbon is centered and the right hand to give the brim a tug forward and to the right.

here's a handy article for tying ghillies from Andrew Lenz --
http://www.bagpipejourney.com/articl..._brogues.shtml

[JRYoung]

Much better on the bonnet. what I find helpful is to use the left hand in the back to make sure the ribbon is centered and the right hand to give the brim a tug forward and to the right.

here's a handy article for tying ghillies from Andrew Lenz --
http://www.bagpipejourney.com/articl..._brogues.shtml

It seems from habit that I put my hats on with my right hand on the back and left on the front. I'll have to try to reverse that habit, at least when wearing the balmoral.
Thanks for the link, I forgot about doing fewer twists on the back than on the front. I had 6 half twists on the front and back, which is part of why the laces ended up so high on my leg. I'll have to experiment and find the number of twists that I like and I think I might cut some of the lace off as I think the bow is a bit too big.

[OC Richard]

I just came across this photo again. The bearded Pipe Major in the centre is of the Seaforth Highlanders of Canada, WWII, and as you can see his kilt is centred to the red line

[JRYoung]

I just came across this photo again. The bearded Pipe Major in the centre is of the Seaforth Highlanders of Canada, WWII, and as you can see his kilt is centred to the red line

It's interesting that different regiments would center the apron differently, even with the same tartan. I would have thought it would have been more standardized. I will say though, that after seeing this I think I'm definitely set on having it centered on the dark square.

[416 Rigby]

The apron of my Mackenzie Modern, a casual from USAK, is centered on the red line. This tartan is usually pleated to the line. You get a nice look when the kilt moves. It's worth having a look to be sure before you spend your $.

[Jock Scot]

Gosh, we do seem to have wandered off topic! Anyway, I know the military require uniformity with their kit, but the British Army have assorted variations on a theme that can and does catch out the unknowing. Often these variations are a subtle difference between the Battalions of the same Regiment.

For the civilians I can well remember kilts having no particular centre line whatsoever and it was all pretty haphazard. I think partly, because the kilts may well have been rebuilt a couple of times for new owners, or even had the aprons reversed. Certainly the pleats quite often just seemed to be done on an "as they come" basis. I may be wrong, but I think this centre line (whatever form that takes) thing and pleats all uniform in pattern is very much a modern thing for civilian wear. I was at a family wedding not so long ago and I was surrounded by many kilts of assorted age, varying from brand new to 60 plus years old, of the same Clan and it was quite noticeable that no particular centre line took precedence(if at all) for any of the kilts. My two kilts have different coloured centre lines and I have no idea how symmetric the tartan is at the rear, other than I know that they are pleated to the sett.

[OC Richard]

Yes Jock that also happens with Pipe Bands, with a band owning a set of kilts for decades, for a quarter-century or more, and the kilts being resized repeatedly to fit various people over the years.

Also many of the Pipe Band people might be new to kilt-wearing and not even realise that a kilt is made to a certain centre-line.

It's why it's best for Pipe Band kilts to be pleated to the line, and to lack belt loops, because the back of the kilt is thrown off-centre when the buckles are moved to fit a larger or smaller person.

But at least in Pipe Bands the aprons are usually left alone, so that the kilt will look centred unless the person has it on crooked.

I think civilian kilts have long been made centred, and that any kiltmaker worth the name would make his kilts that way, and if doing work on an existing kilt try to make it that way.

Certainly in vintage Highland Dress catalogues going back into the 1930s and 1920s it is clear that kilts are intended to be worn centred

[OC Richard]

It's interesting that different regiments would center the apron differently, even with the same tartan. I would have thought it would have been more standardized.

In the photo above there's only one MacKenzie kilt, the one I referenced, in the front line.

Going across that front rank L-R you have BW, BW, MacKenzie, Erracht Cameron, Erracht Cameron, BW.

The two Erracht Cameron kilts are worn exactly the same way. The three BW kilts are too dark to really tell.

One does run into differences, such as the kilts of Officers, and Enlisted Men, of The Gordon Highlanders being centred differently.



As I recall the MacKenzie kilts of The Seaforth Highlanders and of The Highland Light Infantry were centred differently.

[Jock Scot]

OCR.

Remember I was brought up with kilts that were more often than not, made in Victorian times! Whilst your picture of the kilt with a centre line of the 1930/20's is there for all to see, I am not at all sure that all kilt makers at that time and before followed that train of thought. Memory can play tricks on one and mine certainly does, but I don't believe a centre line was a consideration for many civilians or kilt makers in those days.

[OC Richard]

Yes we cannot reconstruct, oftentimes, the thought processes or thinking in the past, unless there's a specific written reference.

I will say that the old Highland Dress catalogues are the only sources, really, which have images of kilts being worn which were created by the firms which made the kilts, perhaps the closest we can get to understanding the intention of the makers.

And in the army we have people who pay close attention to the way various things are worn.

Obviously a civilian can wear a kilt crooked if he pleases, so vintage photos of civilians wearing kilts can't be relied on for information as to how the kilts were actually made and intended to be worn.

Certainly in my own Pipe Band all of our kilts were made with the aprons centred, yet the thoughtless band members throw on their kilts any which way, and only a few "old hands" like myself always wear our kilts centred. It's all of a thing: ghillies laced haphazardly, flashes crooked, hose too high and/or uneven, kilts crooked and too low, neckties sloppy, Glengarries worn too far back on the head.

Many decry "military" or "regimented" kiltwearing but I think everything looks better when care is taken putting it on.