Vestiarium Scoticum - the tartan Pandora's box

[OC Richard]

Thing is, even if you accept the manuscript as genuine, it consists of vague verbal descriptions, each open to an almost infinite number of interpretations. The tartans as illustrated were never purported to be anything other than the inventions of the Allen Brothers. Even when the verbal descriptions are fairly clear the Brothers don't necessarily follow them.

What would be very interesting indeed would be a work called something like The Vestiarium Scoticum Revisited where an actual weaver/tartan designer took a fresh look at the verbal descriptions and designed an entirely new tartan for each. The result would be a host of tartans far more satisfactory than the Allen Brother's clumsy efforts.

[figheadair]

What would be very interesting indeed would be a work called something like The Vestiarium Scoticum Revisited where an actual weaver/tartan designer took a fresh look at the verbal descriptions and designed an entirely new tartan for each. The result would be a host of tartans far more satisfactory than the Allen Brother's clumsy efforts.

No, no, please don't go there, one set of fantasy designs per the brothers is quite enough . As they invented the text too and the fact that it differs from their Cromarty Mss in some cases there's a whole world additonal uncertainty contained within each.

[Pleater]

I have heard that there were people employed by the early silent movie producers to throw in plot twists, escaped gorillas, runaway vehicles, men carrying unwieldy objects, to increase the pace of the storyline and make it more interesting to watch, even if entirely unlikely.

The VS was perhaps the equivalent of one of those introductions,

Anne the Pleater

[OC Richard]

No, no, please don't go there, one set of fantasy designs per the brothers is quite enough

I'm disappointed, especially as you were the very person I had in mind for that project

With descriptions like these a weaver could make nearly any design they chose:

Ruthuene he hethe ain minglit set & ain scarlatte qroff the fyrste hathe vttermaist ain wyde blewe stripe and wtin ain sette of greine and in the mydward yroff ain stripe quhite and in the mydward of the scarlatte twa stryppis greine.

Wow.

[OC Richard]

I have no problem with their designs, from a technical point

My major issue with their designs is their lack of artistic merit. For a tartan, in essence, is a work of art: people taking fabric, which could well be made utterly plain, and using it as a vehicle for an infinite variety of beautiful designs.

The Allen Brothers' designs are stunningly simpleminded and display no awareness of basic principles of two-dimensional design (which traditional tartans display great awareness of). Most of their designs are two, three, or four equal stripes upon a plain ground, clumsy in the extreme.

The Allen Brothers also lifted designs from existing tartans, and these, though usually clumsier than the originals, are not as crude as the pure Allen Brothers creations.

As I have never seen what is contained within those pages, how many designs are contained within and how many of the designs of tartans in those books are actually produced and worn today?

Donald C Sewart says in Scotland's Forged Tartans:

"Nearly all of these 75 tartans were previously unknown to the manufacturers; yet on the sole authority of this work they soon became popular, and have been in the range of tartans in production ever since. About 50 are illustrated in the current popular books."

One sees these Allen Brothers tartans at every Scottish event. Most of their designs stand out clearly due to their simple design, but it's muddy because they also altered existing designs.

Since the Allen Brothers had a fundamental misunderstanding of tartan, thinking it a sort of heraldry, their designs are usually simple, such as two equal stripes



three equal stripes



or four equal stripes, which seemed to be the very limit of their creative powers



Traditional tartans will usually have more interesting designs, and a better sense of proportion and balance. For example three stripes might be broad/narrow/broad or narrow/broad/narrow, four stripes narrow/broad/broad/narrow or broad/narrow/narrow/broad rather than all being equal.

An example of the Allen Brothers "dumbing-down" a tartan is Fraser, originally a sophisticated design



which they changed into one of their typical four-equal-stripes tartans:



The verbal description is vague enough to apply to either.

[figheadair]

An example of the Allen Brothers "dumbing-down" a tartan is Fraser, originally a sophisticated design



which they changed into one of their typical four-equal-stripes tartans:

Richard, I was in agreement until you got to the Fraser setts, then I think we're on more shaky ground. The first sett was a Wilsons' pattern that is essentially the Government tartan with red for black, plus the addition of a white overstripe. What the Allen brothers show is more like a variation on what Jamie Scarlett called the 'MacKintosh motif' (two green bars flanked by blue bars). I prefer to think of this arrangement as a red and green ground separated by/pivoted around, a blue bar; this techniques is commonly found amongst surviving red based 18th century patterns.

Rather than being based on the Wilsons' sett, I more inclined to view the VS Fraser as but another colour variation on the Allen brother's four bar form.

[figheadair]

An example of the differences in plate and text in the VS, in this case for Chisholm.

Plate (blue lines)


Text (black lines)

[OC Richard]

I see your point, though both tartans have blue stripes flanked by green stripes, and a white line in the red area.

It's difficult for me to see how it could be coincidence. MacKintosh lacks the white line.

Typically the verbal description is vague:

Ffryzzel heth fovr stryppis vpon ain scarlatt feyld quhairoff the outerward be of greine & the ynnerward of blewe...

There's no mention of red lines between the blue and green, or indeed whether the necessary line which separates the two blue stripes is red or green or some other colour.

Also there's nothing which indicates the fovr stryppis are of equal width.

It's true, for sure, that the Brothers did more of these variations of their four equal stripe motif which have a pair of stripes of one colour flanked by two of a second colour such as Ruthven and Sinclair.

Possible too that the Brother's "Ffryzzel" is a conflation of MacKintosh and Fraser of Lovat.

By the way, the VS specifies that the white line is 16 threads wide, which seems to me would be much broader than is usually seen.

About Chisholm, the VS says

Chysholme hethe ain greine sett and ain red & vppone the grein set be lystis of bleu with yr sprainis of blak and in the middt vther ain of red and vpon the reid sett twa strypis of quhite.

This could be woven/drawn in a very large number of ways which look quite different from the Brothers' illustration. For example there's no reason to assume that the "red sett" and "green sett" are equal. The "lystis of bleu" and "sprainis of blak" could be of any number, width, and arrangement.

To me it's not clear that the two white stripes need to be in the middle of the red area, only that they be upon it.

[figheadair]

[QUOTE=OC Richard;1317903By the way, the VS specifies that the white line is 16 threads wide, which seems to me would be much broader than is usually seen.[/QUOTE]

That is not out of keeping with at least one kilt of the time which has a huge sett.



This kilt is in the STA's collection. It's made from Wilsons' material and is assumed to be post 1829 and the Cromarty Mss, it's certainly pre-VS. Little is known about the origins of this civilian kilt.

[MacGumerait]

Since the Allen Brothers had a fundamental misunderstanding of tartan, thinking it a sort of heraldry, their designs are usually simple

Agreed Richard . I think the Allen Brothers design of the Montgomery tartan in the VS perhaps takes first prize in simplicity .

Richard and Peter , even though I fully understand the dubious origin of this tartan and the dubious origin of the VS itself ... I decided to have a kilt made in this tartan a few years ago . I generally consider myself as a traditionalist , however , after 40 yrs of being kilted I don't mind straying a bit .

Thus , here is an example of the Montgomery VS tartan being used today .



No argument here on the questionable validity of the VS .... just offering a visual example of one their designs .

Cheers , Mike