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  1. #1
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    Two things relevant: 1), checking several sources on the etymology, the word appears to predate the kilt; 2), the oldest examples
    found come from eastern Asia in an area where the people were physically very like what we think of as Celts, and the cloth is found
    everywhere they migrated to, and to this point I have never seen any reference to the fabric being found anywhere in Europe prior
    to the arrival of Celts. So, as of this writing, I would have to conclude that Scotland has no claim to the word or the pattern. That
    could certainly change, as I do my best to learn continually; new info and findings surface, and most importantly, as improbable as it
    might sound, there is research I haven't run across.

    The tendency of the British Crown to send kilted troops around the world as ambassadors of British culture spread the pattern and the
    kilt widely. The presence of the kilt and the heritage of that presence virtually worldwide predate the legislation proclaiming a national
    dress. Not that we ignore the Highland traditions and thinking about how it is worn there, just that we also consider the thinking where
    it was planted, often well before the 1820s revival.
    Last edited by tripleblessed; 12th May 17 at 07:43 AM.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by tripleblessed View Post
    checking several sources on the etymology, the word appears to predate the kilt
    What word are you referring to?

    Quote Originally Posted by tripleblessed View Post
    eastern Asia in an area where the people were physically very like what we think of as Celts
    I'm assuming you mean the Tarim mummies. The Tarim Basin is in western China. DNA testing has shown that the mummies have mixed DNA from both east, west, and south.

    I know that many people think of red hair etc as being "Celtic" however I have read that the red hair seen in Ireland and Scotland is a legacy of Viking occupation.

    Quote Originally Posted by tripleblessed View Post
    the cloth is found everywhere they migrated to
    Do you mean everywhere the Tarim Basin people migrated to? I'd not heard that there was evidence of them migrating.

    Quote Originally Posted by tripleblessed View Post
    I have never seen any reference to the fabric being found anywhere in Europe prior to the arrival of Celts.
    As I was demonstrating, patterned fabric has long existed all over the world, including pre-Columbian America. Weaving cloth seems to be one of those things, like language, that modern humans have always been doing, and took with them as they spread all over the globe.

    We can find out about ancient clothing from written accounts, iconography, and surviving examples. Woven cloth usually doesn't preserve very well, and many early peoples had no written language. So I wouldn't expect to see much clear evidence, except for things like the mummies you referenced.

    About "the arrival of the Celts" this way of thinking of ancient peoples mainly in terms of migrations has been questioned in recent times. Some writers have questioned the notion that the Celts arrived from anywhere... well of course ultimately ancient peoples came from Africa, but they might not have had anything "Celtic" about them on arrival.

    Proto-Indo-European had to be spoken by a speech community somewhere (just where is a topic of debate) but the Indo-European speaking world includes many peoples we wouldn't think of as being "Celtic". It would be quite a stretch to equate Indo-European migrations with the spread of Celtic-ness.

    Quote Originally Posted by tripleblessed View Post
    I would have to conclude that Scotland has no claim to the word
    What word are you referring to?
    Last edited by OC Richard; 14th May 17 at 06:01 PM.
    Proud Mountaineer from the Highlands of West Virginia; son of the Revolution and Civil War; first Europeans on the Guyandotte

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