Kilts in UK Army battle dress uniform

[Jock Scot]

The Highland Division fought in their kilts during the Battle of France in 1940 and some of those taken prisoner and many were as the 51HD fought as part of the rear guard, at that time wore their kilts until their release in 1945. So, "sometime" in 1940, is the rough date when kilts were officially withdrawn from Unit combat situations, although individuals managed to circumnavigate----as one does in the British army on occasion------those regulations and still fought in the kilt. Tommy Macpherson to name but one, was a notable example of this.

[48HofC]

The kilt was dropped around the time of Dunkirk because higher authorities deemed it not suitable for modern combat. The Cameron's were I believe the last regiment to resist and were rewarded the blue hackle by the king in lieu of wearing the kilt operationally. Kilts for regimental pipes and drums were also in the rear kit that followed troops into combat so that's why after a victory you see sometimes pictures of pipers playing in kilts. Like Jock said, kilts didn't completely disappear because some individuals with the right attitude slipped through the rules and still carried on. Mad Jack Churchill was a very colourful example and kilts even appeared on some airborne troops because one of the battalions was Cameron's converted to the airborne role.

[Bruce Scott]

The decision even made the news in far off Australia, the Cairns Post reporting it on 31 May 1940:

http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/42247318

[Jock Scot]

The decision even made the news in far off Australia, the Cairns Post reporting it on 31 May 1940:

http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/42247318

Well now we have a pretty close date and allowing for a small intercontinental news time lapse perhaps, thank you. I always had an idea that May/June 1940 might be about the time the "powers that be" made the decision.

[Bruce Scott]

Well now we have a pretty close date and allowing for a small intercontinental news time lapse perhaps, thank you. I always had an idea that May/June 1940 might be about the time the "powers that be" made the decision.

This provides some additional information:

Extract from 'Return to St. Valéry' by Lieutenant General Sir Derek Lang

The Division was commanded by Major General Victor Fortune.

In January 1940 they embarked at Southampton for Le Havre.

It was during the preparation that the War Office decided that the kilt was not appropriate for modern warfare and the order was given to hand them in.

Lieutenant Colonel Wimberley commanding the 1st Battalion The Queen's Own Cameron Highlanders wrote :

"An attack has been made on the Highland Regiments as to their wearing their kilts in battle in Europe... the kilt as a battledress was being attacked from three angles. On the grounds of (unit) security, on grounds of its inadequacy in case of gas attack and on grounds of difficulty of supply in war. There was also the tinge of jealousy - why should the kilted regiments be given preferential treatment to wear a becoming kilt. The thickness of the kilt and its seven yards of tartan was extra protection. It was traditional in all highland regiments never to wear any garment in the way of pants under the kilt. But anti-gas pants were issued."

The 5th Gordons had a symbolic parade at Bordon in January 1940 before embarkation in which a single kilt was ceremonially burned. A stone memorial marked the spot inscribed "We hope not for long". The 1st Camerons somehow managed to avoid the order and some were still wearing the kilt at St.Valéry.

The HD signs were removed and replaced with St.Andrews crosses and stags heads on green and purple background. The GOC, Major General Victor Fortune, however continued to wear the HD on his uniform.

From: http://51hd.co.uk/history/mobilisation#ixzz4nyS88MlQ

[Jock Scot]

Thank you Bruce, its seems January 1940 is when the kilt was deemed "unsuitable" for combat use by the War Office. Earlier than I thought, but nice to know.

[duke_19_62]

...although individuals managed to circumnavigate----as one does in the British army on occasion------ regulations

Not just the British Army. I speak from 20 years and one day of experience in the US Army.

[Jock Scot]

Not just the British Army. I speak from 20 years and one day of experience in the US Army.

I am not qualified to venture an opinion on what the US Army get up to, so I bow to your superior knowledge there.

[Bruce Scott]

Abolition of the Kilt
Glasgow Highland Societies' Protest Against War Office Decision
from The Scotsman
December 15, 1939

[ Copied from: http://www.lochiel.net/archives/arch220.html ]

The War Office decision to discontinue the use of the kilt is the subject of a protest by Glasgow Highland Societies, and an appeal to have the question further investigated is supported by a number of well-known Scotsmen and distinguished soldiers. A circular on the matter is being sent to Highland societies outside Glasgow requesting support, and to Scottish M.P.s asking their help to enable the Societies to place the question before the Scottish Grand Committee.

On behalf of the Committee of Glasgow Highland Societies a statement points out that some societies and others seem to be under the impression that the War Office intends to withdraw the kilt only from units on active service in France, but this is not the case. The orders now issued, it is added, withdraw the kilt from all units both at home and abroad. A promise of reissue had been made regarding other ' withdrawn articles of dress at the beginning of the last war, but which had never been reissued, the Government, at the end of the war, regretting that owing to financial stringency they could not afford the reissue. The same argument was likely to hold good at the end of this war.

The supplying of tartan is largely a Scottish industry, the statement continues, and the withdrawal of the kilt would mean more work going to English firms making uniforms, and resulting in people in Scotland losing employment.

SENTIMENTAL LOVE OF THE TARTAN

"At the beginning of the last war the War Office decided to do away with the kilt," states the circular. "They were defeated in this largely by the opposition of the Highland Societies, and the war proved that the Societies were right. Again the War Office has decided, for practically the same reasons as in 1914, to abolish the kilt. It is up to the Highland Societies and Scotsmen again to have that decision reversed.

"The ordinary Englishman cannot understand the sentimentalism and clannishness of the Scot, and is apt to . sneer at it. But it is that sentimental love of the tartan and clannish spirit which have largely made the Highland regiments the dour fighters they are, and for which they are renowned."

Dealing with the authorities' reasons for the decision, the circular states: "There is no difficulty of supply.

"It can be easily proved that it is not the case that the kilt is unhealthy. In the South African War the.medical authorities admitted that the kilt, by keeping the vital organs warm, prevented sickness. Kilted units in Palestine, during the last war, had the same experience, and there is every reason to believe that the health of the kilted units in France was as good, if not better, than those in trousers.

"Admittedly a wet kilt is uncomfortable, but not so uncomfortable as wet trousers. It is further claimed, from experience, that the kilt has many advantages over trousers. For instance, when going into the line, men had often to wade through water in the long communication trenches. The Highlander, without difficulty, tucked up his kilt or carried it over his shoulder. The result was that he reached the front line comparatively dry, while the man in trousers was wet well up his legs with the water slowly creeping up the cloth, and would remain wet for the three or four days he was in the line. The kilted units were often sorry for them as there is nothing worse than being wet. Other: instances, could be given where the kilt proved superior to trousers in trench warfare.

In the last war kilted battalions did not suffer more severely from the effects of gas than trousered units. It is admitted by gas experts that there is no clothing (either trousers or kilts) that it cannot penetrate - therefore trousers are no safer than kilts."

"NO SOUND REASON FOR ABOLITION"

It is contended that, so far, no sound reason has been given for abolishing the kilt, unless it is to save a little trouble in connection with the distribution.

"If it is intended to retain the kilt as a peace-time dress, why should it be withdrawn from regiments in Egypt, India, and China, which are practically on a peacetime footing, and are unaffected by the war in France." asks the circular. "In these countries the kilt has been worn with distinction for generations and is now to be substituted by khaki shorts - a definitely less healthy dress in climate with hot days and cold nights.

"Scotsmen must realise that if the kilt is once abolished for active service, it will disappear for ever. At the conclusion of this war - as in the past - there will be a strong demand for stern economy, and it would be hard to resist the plea that if the kilt is to be regarded as merely a ceremonial dress its retention would not be justified.

"We must, therefore, insist that the kilt be neither withdrawn nor abolished until the whole question has been examined by a Select Committee, largely composed of Scotsmen, as it is one which directly affects Scotland.

It is added that, if necessary, they must appeal to His Majesty the King.

The circular is signed on behalf of the Glasgow Highland Societies by:-

Col. Sir Donald Cameron of Lochiel, Col. Sir Iain Colquhoun, Bt., of Luss; Col. Sir Colin W. MacRae of Feoirlinn, Col. Sir Robert C. Mackenzie, Col. A. K. Reid, Lieut.-Col. W.D. Macrae, Lieut.-Col. Norman MacLeod, Capt, Campbell (the Highlanders Institute), Capt. Wm. MacLean (the Clan MacLean), Mr M. F. Matheson (Gairloch and Loch Broom, Ross-shire) Mr Robert Bain (Ross and Cromarty Association), Mr Thomas Cameron (the Clan Cameron.)

The following support the appeal against the withdrawal of the kilt until the question has been fully investigated:-

The Duke of Argyll, the Duke of Sutherland, the Marquess of Ailsa, .the Earl of Airlie, the Earl of Elgin, the Earl of Home, Earl of Mar and Kellie, Lord Lovat, Lord Glentanar, Sir Godfrey Macdonald of the Isles, Sir John Lome Macleod, Maclachlan of Maclachlan, General Sir John Burnet-Stuart, General Sir Frederick Campbell, General Sir Ian Hamilton, General Sir Torquhil Matheson, Lieut-General Sir F. W. N. M'Cracken, Major General John Campbell, Major-General Sir Gerald C. Kitson, Major-General Sir Colin.Mackenzie, Major-General Sir Henry F. Thuillier, Brig.-General W. H. L, Allgood, Brig.-General Sir Norman Orr Ewing, Brig.-General J.L.R. Gordon, Brig.-General Patrick W. Hendry, Brig.-General Ian Stewart, Brig.-General M. Grant Wilkinson, Col. H. T. Baillie, Col. Thomas Fraser, Col. Sir Victor A. F. Mackenzie, Col. L. Mackinnon, Col. William Robertson, Col. Sir George Stirling, Lieut.-Col. D. Campbell of Inverneill, Lieut.-Col Lord Dudley Gordon, Lieut.-Colonel Colin M. Mackenzie, Lieut.-Col. W. M. Stewart; Lieut.-Col. J. A. Symon, Lieut.-Col T. G. Taylor. Lieut.-Col. E. W. Watt.

[OC Richard]

I'm a visual person rather than a document person, and what I find interesting is the series of photos of Gordon Highlanders during the "sitzkrieg".

There are numerous photos of Gordons wearing a uniform straight out of WWI, the khaki TOS and khaki Service Dress tunic, kilts, etc.

I find the following photo the most interesting, as it appears to show two somewhat distinct orders of dress, literally a snapshot of the period of transition between the old and new kit.

1) WWI style uniform of old-style Service Dress tunic, kilt, and TOS.

2) the new Battle Dress jacket and trousers, worn with Glengarry.



This flies in the face of the general notion that Battle Dress was worn only with the TOS, Service Dress only with Glengarry.

This was certainly true in the post-Dunkirk Highland regiments, in which the standard uniform was Battle Dress jacket and trousers worn with the TOS.

However at least in the re-formed 51st Division pipers are seen in kilts even in the war theatre. Some photos show officers and members of guard details in kilts too.

Pipers of the 51st, France, 1944.



Detail of The Black Watch, France 1944.



BTW the introduction of Battle Dress ushered in a second convenient period in Highland uniform when the standard British jacket did not have to be modified for wear with the kilt.

The previous period was 1800 to 1855.

(Note: this thread should be in the military forum.)