Personal flair

[Jock Scot]

Would it be possible to make a distinction between the traditional highland approach to kilt attire and a North American approach to traditional highland kilt attire? I think for the most part those in North America who consider themselves traditionalists stay loyal and pay respect to the Scottish highland traditions of kilted attire but given cultural differences, they are bound to show somewhere in our attire. I personally do not see this as a disregard or lack of respect to the highland traditions but an adjustment to our cultural frame of reference. It is still distinctly Scottish with the minor subtle differences that only and experienced highlander kilt wearer would notice. Thoughts?

Choice is a personal matter for each and every one of us and if you want to dress as a clown, then, who am I to comment. Highland Scot, North American, Swede, Martian, will, as you point out, have their interpretations for sure, perhaps encouraged by unhelpful misinformation from many directions and that is why I use the expression of "dressing to best effect" which is rather less controversial internationally speaking, I think. Nevertheless, there is no escaping the fact that the traditional kilt and its attire, is recognised the world over as Highland Scots attire, particularly in the traditional form, so no, I don't feel personally that there is any latitude, apart from climate considerations, for rather excessive traditional kilt attire adjustments that some here are suggesting.

Whilst I may not like some people's choices, if someone claims that they want to dress in the kilt as they please, then that is their choice and that, I respect. If they call their version "traditional" then I may, or may not, air my views.

[Nomad]

I have been on here for a little over a year now and have browsed many of the current and "historical" threads, whilst there are numerous strong opinions both traditional and otherwise I have found that they have educated me enormously and helped guide me in forming my own tastes.

On the whole, as a newbie to kilts, I think the views/guidance of Jock and other traditionalists have been excellent and like many things relating to how we dress I find that using that information to ensure I have the basics correct has given me more confidence in experimenting with different looks.

As an example I do wear my kilt with argyl jacket, waistcoat etc, but I am equally happy to swap out the argyl for a Levi jacket and high quality boots as I have seen this demonstrated well by others on this site.

So, back on thread, personal flair is of course personal, but I do think that if get the basics right then it is less likely that your "flair" will look ridiculous, perhaps eccentric, but then again you're wearing a kilt, why would you not be considered eccentric (unless of course you are surrounded by other kilted persons).

[Nathan]

Nathan.

I think it is the tartan jacket and waistcoat that really raises an eye brow over here for day attire. Why? If we consider that a tartan tie is considered over the top by many experienced kilt wearers here, then it follows that anything more, is hardly likely to be met with enthusiasm!

So what do I for example consider reasonable personal flair for day kilt attire. A regimental/club/college tie with a personal meaning, for a start. A not off the peg tweed kilt jacket and waistcoat and although rather more difficult these days as marled hose have now been replaced with a lovely choice of hose colours, there are still some interesting choices to be found. Also perhaps, an addition of a subtle non standard kilt pin, but nothing too loud. So in all, very different to your choices.

For formal evening wear, black tie events appear to be more common over here and they are regarded as a no big deal event. So the bog standard black tie, dress(UK definition)shirt, Black barathea silver buttoned argyll(BBSBA) with a three buttoned black waistcoat if required or a Prince Charlie(PC) with a three buttoned black waistcoat if required, plain coloured hose and well polished black brogues or black oxfords will do nicely for almost ALL black tie events.

It is only when we head towards the more rare ultra formal evening dress event do the patterned hose and buckled shoes and dress sporran and sporran chain come out and THEN is the time to start to let loose the three button tartan waistcoat and perhaps a tartan dress evening jacket. Interestingly, the tartan evening jackets and jackets of interesting "cut" are very much a Western Highland thing.

"Over-egging the cake" is just not regarded as a merit over here, by those with experience.

When we discussed this before, Creagdubh shared photos of Highlanders including Some Highland chiefs wearing tartan waistcoats with day wear. When I saw those photos I thought they looked wonderful. Certainly, you may have seen them and thought they looked ridiculous and that opinion may be shared by the majority of your peers. My point is simply that even in the Highlands, frequent inspections of photos from Highland Games and events in Scotland show the range of outfits various people favour. For example, the Duke of Rothsay tends to be more matchy than Jock would normally recommend.

There are those who would look at my pics with the tartan waistcoat and think it looks over the top. Fair enough. There are also many people who love the look.

I know you caution people from reading too much into photos out of context but I think when you see someone in many photos wearing something, you know who they are and you know where they are, it’s pretty much the same as seeing that same thing in person.
Slàinte,

Nathan

[Nomad]

Us Brits / Scots / Welsh / English / Irish tend be a conservative lot, in fact overdressing in the wrong environment can be seen as flashy or in the worst case vulgar as it can be taken as rubbing those not as fortunate noses in it ( if you are not aware of this expression it relates to an old fashioned way of house training pets).

This view is not necessarily true for the whole of the U.K., but is certainly prevelent in the north of England and southern Scotland, therefore where displays of wealth/style is concerned subtlety is appreciate by many and regarded as "having class".

This isn't a stab at anyone who has gone to the great expense of having tartan waistcoats/jackets made, I'm just trying to explain how the mindset across the pond can differ.

[Terry Searl]

Choice is a personal matter for each and every one of us and if you want to dress as a clown, then, who am I to comment. Highland Scot, North American, Swede, Martian, will, as you point out, have their interpretations for sure, perhaps encouraged by unhelpful misinformation from many directions and that is why I use the expression of "dressing to best effect" which is rather less controversial internationally speaking, I think. Nevertheless, there is no escaping the fact that the traditional kilt and its attire, is recognised the world over as Highland Scots attire, particularly in the traditional form, so no, I don't feel personally that there is any latitude, apart from climate considerations, for rather excessive traditional kilt attire adjustments that some here are suggesting.

Whilst I may not like some people's choices, if someone claims that they want to dress in the kilt as they please, then that is their choice and that, I respect. If they call their version "traditional" then I may, or may not, air my views.

Jock, In my opinion, I think that your inference that someone wants to dress as a CLOWN, with their choices of attire is rather rude, and takes away from what you are saying

[Mike S]

Oh please, Jock's observations and opinions were not intended to infer such pointed insults. There IS a tangible line that exists between "personal flair", and outrageous flamboyance. Knowing where that line exists is called taste.

[Jock Scot]

Jock, In my opinion, I think that your inference that someone wants to dress as a CLOWN, with their choices of attire is rather rude, and takes away from what you are saying

Oh dear Terry, I think we have a trans- Atlantic misunderstanding here. I am sorry if you think I have been rude, that was not my intention.

Let me interpret! “—-dress as a clown” means it’s a free world, do as you wish( dress as a clown) and get on with it. It’s a turn of phrase that I have grown up with all my life and and as far as I know is used throughout my fairly extensive family and beyond and is not intended to be rude either to to the the person receiving the comment, or clowns!

[Jock Scot]

When we discussed this before, Creagdubh shared photos of Highlanders including Some Highland chiefs wearing tartan waistcoats with day wear. When I saw those photos I thought they looked wonderful. Certainly, you may have seen them and thought they looked ridiculous and that opinion may be shared by the majority of your peers. My point is simply that even in the Highlands, frequent inspections of photos from Highland Games and events in Scotland show the range of outfits various people favour. For example, the Duke of Rothsay tends to be more matchy than Jock would normally recommend.

There are those who would look at my pics with the tartan waistcoat and think it looks over the top. Fair enough. There are also many people who love the look.



I know you caution people from reading too much into photos out of context but I think when you see someone in many photos wearing something, you know who they are and you know where they are, it’s pretty much the same as seeing that same thing in person.
Slàinte,

Nathan

I think that I said in a thread just recently that tartan waistcoats are an unusual sight in Scotland and they are . I even gave an example of some one who wears a tartan vest. I don’t think that I have ever said that they are never seen. And yes! I do urge caution in drawing conclusions from pictures without a full understanding of what you are looking at.

I am not at all sure that I have ever suggested that the Duke of Rothesay dresses in a Matchy way. Yes, he could be a tad more flamboyant in his kilt attire without being over the top, but not by much. Nomads comments a few posts above this one are VERY pertinent in the Dukes case and it is obvious that subtle and quiet good taste is his chosen route for the very reason that Nomad mentions.

[Jock Scot]

---------------

I am not at all sure that I have ever suggested that the Duke of Rothesay dresses in a Matchy way. Yes, he could be a tad more flamboyant in his kilt attire without being over the top, but not by much. Nomads comments a few posts above this one are VERY pertinent in the Dukes case and it is obvious that subtle and quiet good taste is his chosen route for the very reason that Nomad mentions.

Thinking about my comment above and bearing in mind Nomads pertinent observations earlier in this thread. Do we think that the Duke could improve the look of his attire in any way, to achieve what he needs to portray?

Black well polished shoes---check, Kilt hose of interesting colours without being loud and perfect height---- check. Plain flashes at a perfect length----check. Tartan kilt worn well----check. Sporran (I am not keen on the style) but a sound choice---check. Modest kilt pin worn at a slightly old fashioned height, but perfectly correct----check. The usual pale blue shirt, fine for any day occasion and slightly smarter than a tattersall shirt might be, so fine for every and any day occasion that he is likely to meet----check. A regimental tie, often The Gordon Highlanders, but he has many to choose from---check. Dark tweed(?) argyll day kilt jacket and waistcoat, plain and without cuffs and epaulets, so ageless and will blend in with any day event---check. Pocket watch---check. No bonnet, so no affectation there.....check. Often a cromach which is very helpful with a 70 year old back when stood about all day..... check.

Actually, I don't think he needs to change a thing and his muted but elegant kilt attire, with the tartan of the kilt taking centre stage in the outfit as a whole, is a perfectly thought out and modest but effective example of what he needs whilst carrying out civilian public duties during the day anywhere in the Highlands of Scotland.

[The Q]

I agree with Jock, but that is probably because Living this side of the atlantic I understand his terminology.
Whether You wish to dress as Ronald Macdonald the clown or Ruraridh Macdonald a traditionalist from the Isle of Skye or anywear in between is entirely up to you. Though these days Ruraridh would be more likely to be wearing jeans and a sweat shirt...

My personal opinion I'm not forcing on anyone...
Adding "flair" to kilted dress I see as pointless, even in the Highlands of Scotland wearing a kilt is such a rarity, you stand out anyway. There is no need to attract any more attention.
I wear a kilt occasionally down Here in England, which I under stand Jock does not normally do.
I attract some attention as it is, without adding anything that is not traditional, in fact I "tone down" my kilt wear by wearing a sailing club Polo Shirt with my kilt when others are wearing polo shirts and trousers. I also wear deck shoes if I'm going on a boat. The nearest thing I wear to flair, is a boat shaped Kilt pin...