The Scots Gaelic Myth

[John_Carrick]

Thank you for a very interesting thread.

May I ask what was the language of the Picts? I know I am going back hundreds of years further, but with the foundation of the Scotland, my understanding was the Irish Gaelic speaking Scotti and the Picts forged a Kingdom under Kenneth MacAlpin (much myth and legend about how fast and how violently this occurred).

My understanding of Scottish historic is very high level and may be very wrong, so be gentle.

[figheadair]

Thank you for a very interesting thread.

May I ask what was the language of the Picts? I know I am going back hundreds of years further, but with the foundation of the Scotland, my understanding was the Irish Gaelic speaking Scotti and the Picts forged a Kingdom under Kenneth MacAlpin (much myth and legend about how fast and how violently this occurred).

My understanding of Scottish historic is very high level and may be very wrong, so be gentle.

Not everything on Wiki is necessary correct all the time but this is a good summary of what we know/can deduce of this extinct language - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pictish_language

[Taskr]

The growth and distribution of Scots in Scotland and Ulster: Old English by the beginning of the 9th century in the northern portion of the Anglo-Saxon kingdom of Northumbria, now part of Scotland
Early Scots by the beginning of the 15th century
Modern Scots by the mid 20th century

While splitting hairs, would seem to indicate at least some of the lowlands speaking old English prior to the 12th Century.

I was taught Gaelic in elementary school, and still remember a few simple phrases.

[Tarheel]

David, I lived in Salter Path, NC. (on the outer banks) for three years in the mid 1980's. I was a land surveyor and met every sort of person up and down the outer banks. I found the folks on Harker's Island (for instance) spoke with a Gloucester brogue. The people of Oriental, and New Bern spoke with more of an old English slant. All the fishing villages blended to sound like northern American fishermen. There were voices from the Caribbean and cajun areas thrown in with the different fishing seasons.

To my ear, the NC mountain and foothill people sounded gaelic.

Collin, the Cape Fear river was the main trade route into the middle of NC. The Yadkin River was the next artery that my family used and lived along. Scots made encampments all along those routes to get to the mountains. Sorry for the history lesson but trade was the main objective in the New World and languages changed as fast the currencies flowed.

[Steve Ashton]

that whilst Britain is still ruled by a line of Queens and Kings who are of Stuart descent,

??? I'm sorry, perhaps my history is rusty.

[Taskr]

The Royal House of Stuart became extinct with the death of Cardinal Henry Benedict Stuart, brother of Charles Edward Stuart, in 1807

[PatrickHughes123]

The Royal House of Stuart became extinct with the death of Cardinal Henry Benedict Stuart, brother of Charles Edward Stuart, in 1807

Wasn't George Hanover like the half-German grandson of James Edward Stuart?

[Bruce Scott]

Wasn't George Hanover like the half-German grandson of James Edward Stuart?

One of George I's grandmothers was Elizabeth Stuart, daughter of James VI & I.

https://www.britroyals.com/stuarttree.asp

[Allan Thomson]

The Royal House of Stuart became extinct with the death of Cardinal Henry Benedict Stuart, brother of Charles Edward Stuart, in 1807

That's a myth in so many ways...

You fall into the old fashioned mistake of just judging a lines linage by the paternal side - which given that Pictish society was said to be matralinear masks the Stuart linage of our current dynasty. They didn't just invite a random German household to become the rulers of the UK... Indeed Cumberland & Charlie were distant cousins...

On top ofthat back in the other line with the surname Stuart, they Fathered a fair few B*stards...one of them was buried in Dunkeld... Even Cardinal Henry had a few he acknowledged...

I did read a book some years back by someone calling himself Prince Michael of Albany claimingsto be a descendant of the Stuart and rightful claimant to the throne. I was cynical & took his claims to be far fetched. But he did produce a convincing enough argument that there was plenty of illegitimate offspring from that line...it was more that he was arguing about the legitimacy of some of them....my bet is there's probably a lot with Stuart blood about today....

[Allan Thomson]

I'm intrigued by the assumptions that all place names with Dun in are all definitely Gaelic. In some cases is just as probable they were Saxon in origin - the Saxon word for Hill was Dun. For example Edinburgh was part of the Kingdom of Northumbria at one point. Would we claim that Durham and Dunstable are Gaelic? They may be Celtic in origin possibly, but more likely Saxon and if they were Celtic they were P & not Q Celt.


Just a case of the Gaelic extremists (no slight intended to Gaelic Scholars or speakers) seeing a place name & assuming + asserting that it is Gaelic only because it fits with their agenda?

Suprised nobody has brought up Dingwall yet? That drfinitely isn't Gaelic or Saxon & provides evidence of governance by another none indigenous people....