Highlanders in the French and Indian war

[The Q]

Orvis, thanks for the great discourse. I enjoyed it very much and appreciate your
First. we can agree that the Ulster plantation was a british 'ploy' to rid the border region of the Reiver clans (by the way both british and scots) thus freeing up land for loyalists to move in and removing an ongoing source of conflict, raids and even occasional outright battles. At the same time it enabled them to rid a portion of Ireland of those pesky Irish (the plan didn't work as laid out of course) with a future eye to conquering all of Ireland using the blood of scots etc. to make it happen. A way over simplification to be sure but use that as the starting point for the discourse.


GREAT CHAT all. This is why I follow this board.

Errr Scots are British

The Scots moving into Ulster, Started Before the Union of the crowns

[Allan Thomson]

Errr Scots are British

The Scots moving into Ulster, Started Before the Union of the crowns

And isn't it funny when people start talking about "the plantations" they never acknowledge where the Scots came originally?.....

[Chris Hills]

Yeah, and the more I dig into my family, the more I wonder what a scotsman is... Before the celtic influx from Ireland and the Anglo influx from the south, "scotland" was a land filled with Picts. with their own language (I saw it was called Pictish recently... anyhow a dead language completely unknown today) and their own culture and art. Then over a thousand years ago the celtic culture and Gaelic language came into the western islands and eventually highlands from Ireland (so are we highlanders really irish?). I saw some archaeological information that showed that when the Earls of Athol settled in scotland there were already Pictish ruins there so perhaps even the pictish people were still there? conquered? driven out? interbred? Also, the Anglo's moved up the east coast of "britain" into the "border region" and up to the North East coast of scotland (what some call the lowlands) bringing in their language (Inglis) and culture creating the pinch that ultimately eliminated (or assimilated?) the picts entirely. An interesting new point I stumbled across this fall though... Welsh as a language was spoken up the entire west coast of "Britain" from modern wales all the way to the Galloway region of modern Scotland. So at least in that border lowland, there was another "people group". also, don't forget the Norwegian viking conquests on both coasts. So what we call a "Scotsman" is a mix of Irish, Pict, Welsh, Anglo and Norwegian depending on where your clan was from. The Norman (french) and Roman conquests didn't make it up to scotland per se but going back far enough, I found that the Ingles language of the Anglos (pre Norman conquest which changed the language to modern english in the south) contains many "hard sounds" akin to old Germanic languages so... that might imply origins of the Anglo gennetics as well?

In any case, My point is this. My highland Donnachaidh clan is more Irish (with some norwegian and maybe pict?) and my Reiver Home clan is probably more anglo (though looking at family marriages to Robertsons, Bruces, etc. obviously some gaelic) perhaps pict? Perhaps Welsh.

So when some gaelic speaking donnachaidh's (both robertsons and colliers among other septs) and other highland clans moved into N. ireland (a century before the English king began the Ulster plantation) they were really retracing their ancestral roots. But, when the Scots speaking (the language name changed from Ingles to Scots after the norman influence created the modern english language to the south) border reiver's were "exported" or "enticed" to N. Ireland they were going to a new place.

As a side note... the "English King" that started ulster was a scot. Remember King James the VI of scotland son of Mary queen of Scots? He became King James I of england unifying the british (english, welsh, scottish and irish) crown. right, it was him... the Stewart Scottish king that began moving the Reiver's (his people as he spoke and recorded official edinburgh royal court records in the "scots language" NOT Gaelic) into Ulster (along with english and welsh people) creating the plantation.

As I spent too much time trying to dig into the ulster Historical society records in the last few months, it became clear to me that though the language became scots in the Ulster plantation (meaning that the primary culture was lowland Scottish) the names there also include many of the highland clans as well as various english, irish and welsh names. So to say it was a "british" colony wouldn't be incorrect, though our ancestors that lived there might grouse at that point. When they came to the colonies, they didn't say they were british, they described themselves as Scots-Irish (or Ulster-Scot) which at least implies something. Also, speaking only to my family's history, they were unabashedly anti-English and those sentiments passed down for several hundred years for whatever reason.

Long and short, (and without looking to cause a fight), I have concluded that there is no such thing historically or genetically as a scot per se, rather we are an amalgamation of a bunch of cultures, languages and gene pools who ended up in one place Geographically. And IF my Ulster-Scot, Kentucky frontier ancestors are any indication of what a "scotsman" is... they work hard, love to Love... and to fight, drink a lot and bet on the horses! If that is a scotsman I got a full measure of it in my blood!