X Marks the Scot - An on-line community of kilt wearers.

   X Marks Partners - (Go to the Partners Dedicated Forums )
USA Kilts website Celtic Croft website Celtic Corner website Houston Kiltmakers

User Tag List

Results 1 to 9 of 9

Hybrid View

  1. #1
    Join Date
    23rd March 19
    Location
    Seattle
    Posts
    99
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    just out of curiosity, what was the de facto standard prior to the 80's 'uniform'?

  2. #2
    Join Date
    18th October 09
    Location
    Orange County California
    Posts
    11,412
    Mentioned
    18 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Bad Monkey View Post
    just out of curiosity, what was the de facto standard prior to the 80's 'uniform'?
    It was a period in flux.

    The civilian pipe band thing got big starting around 1900, and then there were two looks bands went with

    1) Military-style full dress. This was the piper's costume introduced in the Cameron Highlanders in the 1840s which by the time of the 1881 reforms had become general throughout the army. It still defines "military style full dress" today.

    2) Civilian Evening Dress. This, like all civilian Highland Dress, went through changes in the 1910-1930 period which brought it from the typical Victorian civilian Highland costume to our familiar 20th century Highland costume.

    This was the situation with civilian pipe bands up into the post-WWII period.

    WWII had a temporary impact on pipe band costume, with many bands adopting versions of the Battle Dress jacket (or Ike jacket as we call it in the USA) in the 1940s and 1950s.

    But in the main civilian pipe band costume really hadn't changed much up into the 1970s when I joined my first band, with bands wearing Evening Dress or military-style full dress.

    In the 1970s bands started simplifying their costume. A typical 70s costume might include

    -Prince Charlie coatee
    -Balmoral bonnets, or even hatless (it was a time of big hair)
    -bow ties or long ties (yes long ties with Prince Charlies, it was a thing)
    -Evening Dress sporrans
    -heavy cream-coloured hand-knit Aran hose
    -Ghillie brogues

    The latter were actually new to the pipe band world; before the 1970s it was either spats, or buckled Evening Dress shoes with full tartan hose.

    It was around that time that bands started going to the black Argyll jackets as an alternative to Prince Charlies.

    So before pipe band dress became standardised around the 1980s you would still see bands in Evening Dress and military-style Full Dress and bands with the newer costume with the Aran hose, Ghillies, etc.

    Civilian pipe band in Evening Dress, early 20th century



    Civilian pipe band in military-style Full Dress, competing at the 1980s Worlds.



    The changing fashions: Canadian pipe bands in 1976





    In the early 1980s Scottish Grade One bands like Shotts and Boghall are appearing in the new costume of

    -black Argyll
    -long tie
    -black Glengarry
    -Ghillie brogues
    -off-white hose

    and by the end of the decade this costume had become the new standard.

    In 1984 RUC was still competing in Full Dress, said to be among the last holdouts.

    About the "when" of white hose, the 1970s was the start.

    About the end of the white hose era, the number of G1 bands wearing white at various points:

    2006: 11 of 14
    2014: 3 of 14
    2018: zero
    Last edited by OC Richard; 18th August 19 at 05:53 AM.
    Proud Mountaineer from the Highlands of West Virginia; son of the Revolution and Civil War; first Europeans on the Guyandotte

  3. The Following 5 Users say 'Aye' to OC Richard For This Useful Post:


  4. #3
    Join Date
    16th July 19
    Location
    Central Alberta, Canada
    Posts
    135
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Glengarry hat

    Quote Originally Posted by OC Richard View Post
    It was a period in flux.

    The civilian pipe band thing got big starting around 1900, and then there were two looks bands went with

    1) Military-style full dress. This was the piper's costume introduced in the Cameron Highlanders in the 1840s which by the time of the 1881 reforms had become general throughout the army. It still defines "military style full dress" today.

    2) Civilian Evening Dress. This, like all civilian Highland Dress, went through changes in the 1910-1930 period which brought it from the typical Victorian civilian Highland costume to our familiar 20th century Highland costume.

    This was the situation with civilian pipe bands up into the post-WWII period.

    WWII had a temporary impact on pipe band costume, with many bands adopting versions of the Battle Dress jacket (or Ike jacket as we call it in the USA) in the 1940s and 1950s.

    But in the main civilian pipe band costume really hadn't changed much up into the 1970s when I joined my first band, with bands wearing Evening Dress or military-style full dress.

    In the 1970s bands started simplifying their costume. A typical 70s costume might include

    -Prince Charlie coatee
    -Balmoral bonnets, or even hatless (it was a time of big hair)
    -bow ties or long ties (yes long ties with Prince Charlies, it was a thing)
    -Evening Dress sporrans
    -heavy cream-coloured hand-knit Aran hose
    -Ghillie brogues

    The latter were actually new to the pipe band world; before the 1970s it was either spats, or buckled Evening Dress shoes with full tartan hose.

    It was around that time that bands started going to the black Argyll jackets as an alternative to Prince Charlies.

    So before pipe band dress became standardised around the 1980s you would still see bands in Evening Dress and military-style Full Dress and bands with the newer costume with the Aran hose, Ghillies, etc.

    Civilian pipe band in Evening Dress, early 20th century



    Civilian pipe band in military-style Full Dress, competing at the 1980s Worlds.



    The changing fashions: Canadian pipe bands in 1976





    In the early 1980s Scottish Grade One bands like Shotts and Boghall are appearing in the new costume of

    -black Argyll
    -long tie
    -black Glengarry
    -Ghillie brogues
    -off-white hose

    and by the end of the decade this costume had become the new standard.

    In 1984 RUC was still competing in Full Dress, said to be among the last holdouts.

    About the "when" of white hose, the 1970s was the start.

    About the end of the white hose era, the number of G1 bands wearing white at various points:

    2006: 11 of 14
    2014: 3 of 14
    2018: zero
    Richard,

    When and do know why the bands switched from balmoral to glengarry bonnets? Always thought the glengarry was the standard.

    Thanks much

    Jacques
    "I know of no inspiration to be got from trousers."
    Lt. Col. Norman MacLeod, QOCH, c. 1924

  5. The Following User Says 'Aye' to Jacques For This Useful Post:


  6. #4
    Join Date
    13th March 05
    Location
    Victoria, British Columbia, Canada (OCONCAN)
    Posts
    3,813
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Richard, I always enjoy your fashion summary of the World's each year. Thanks!
    The competition members of our band were there in Grade 4A this year.
    "Touch not the cat bot a glove."

  7. #5
    Join Date
    18th October 09
    Location
    Orange County California
    Posts
    11,412
    Mentioned
    18 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Jacques View Post

    When and why bands switched from balmoral to glengarry bonnets? Always thought the glengarry was the standard.
    From the late 19th century up until around 1980 many bands wore civilian Evening Dress, for which the Balmoral was generally used.

    During that same period many other civilian bands wore military-style Full Dress, and that outfit was topped either with the Feather Bonnet or the Glengarry.

    As far as I can tell the wearing the black Glengarry with the black Argyll (an old civilian Evening Dress style) started around 1980.

    As far as the "why" goes, Fashion changes for the sake of change. As Yoda might say, "there is no why".

    Anyhow, as part of full disclosure here's the first band I played in, late 1970s



    This was AFAIK a new kit for them. I saw them compete in Full Dress (feather bonnets etc) a couple years before I joined.

    By the time I joined they were using Full Dress for gigs and the outfit above for competition.

    Notice only one of the pipers is wearing Ghillie brogues.

    Our waistcoats were chocolate brown corduroy, which matched our cover-less L&M Elkhide bags quite well!

    Now some random pics from the old days:

    A pipe band competing in Full Dress, 1976. Gotta love those lemon yellow drummers' doublets!



    Band competing in Balmorals, 1989.



    The new look: at the same 1989 contest, a band with Glengarries and black Argylls, the earliest photo I have of this outfit at one of our local Games. Soon the off-white Aran handknit hose will be discarded, the last vestige of the 1970s, and the new pure white bobbletop hose will complete the standard outfit of the 1990s.

    Last edited by OC Richard; 21st August 19 at 05:15 PM.
    Proud Mountaineer from the Highlands of West Virginia; son of the Revolution and Civil War; first Europeans on the Guyandotte

  8. The Following 2 Users say 'Aye' to OC Richard For This Useful Post:


  9. #6
    Join Date
    13th October 10
    Location
    Powell River, BC, Canada
    Posts
    313
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    The first band I played with, a juvenile band, wore glengarries with cock feathers when I first joined in August 1958. It had worn these since its inception about three years earlier. The band later switched to balmorals, with no feather, in early 1960. I have no idea why. The pipe major probably thought they looked smarter. As for footwear, we wore full tartan hose with black brogues or oxfords and fancy black leather flaps covering the laces instead of buckles. For jackets, we wore the regulation doublet with silver trim on the cuffs and pockets, no vest or waist belt. We also wore a long tie in the same tartan as the kilt.

    This was yours truly in 1959 wearing the band uniform. I had no flaps on my shoes because so many of them had been lost that the band had abandoned their use. Note that my stripes were on the wrong arm. This was the pipe major's idea. Again, I don't know why, but in juvenile bands in the 1950s, you didn't question the PM's diktats.
    Last edited by imrichmond; 21st August 19 at 05:25 PM.

  10. The Following 3 Users say 'Aye' to imrichmond For This Useful Post:


  11. #7
    Join Date
    28th March 08
    Location
    York
    Posts
    327
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Bands can wear whatever they like/can afford. Personally I dislike the waistcoat only thing.

    If I were designing a uniform I would go for a something like a tropical service dress jacket and a khaki field service helmet. Looks a bit like a policeman's helmet in khaki. provides protection from the rain and the sun.

    For colder weather a military style heavy wool pullover. Same colour as the hose.
    The 'Eathen in his idleness bows down to wood and stone,
    'E don't obey no orders unless they is his own,
    He keeps his side arms awful,
    And he leaves them all about,
    Until up comes the Regiment and kicks the 'Eathen out.

  12. #8
    Join Date
    18th October 09
    Location
    Orange County California
    Posts
    11,412
    Mentioned
    18 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Good Egg View Post
    Bands can wear whatever they like/can afford.
    Oh for sure they can. But in practice the leading Grade One bands set the fashion and all the lesser bands follow suit.

    Pipe Band fashion has a distinct function: it tells the rest of the Pipe Band community whether the band is "in the loop", keeping current on the latest music etc, or whether the band has been living in a Pipe Band backwater somewhere and hasn't got the memo.

    Experienced Pipe Band people can make an educated guess as to a band's playing level just by seeing a photo of it.

    I made this statement on a Pipe Band forum and several people told me I was mistaken.

    So to put it to a test I posted a photo of each of the following:

    1) a Grade 2 competition band
    2) a Grade 4 competition band
    3) a noncompetition "street band" or "sweater band"

    and I invited people to send me their guesses as to which band was which through Personal Message.

    Every responded guessed all three bands correctly.


    Quote Originally Posted by Good Egg View Post
    If I were designing a uniform I would go for a something like a tropical service dress jacket and a khaki field service helmet.
    There was a band here, back in the early 1980s, that dressed like that. Here they are!



    It's a mystery to me why they didn't go with a military tartan. Think of how much nicer that uniform would have looked with Black Watch or Seaforth MacKenzie or Cameron of Erracht or Gordon tartan!

    Quote Originally Posted by Good Egg View Post
    For colder weather a military style heavy wool pullover.
    Ah, a sweater band, as we call them here. Are there "jumper bands" in the UK?
    Last edited by OC Richard; 9th September 19 at 07:09 PM.
    Proud Mountaineer from the Highlands of West Virginia; son of the Revolution and Civil War; first Europeans on the Guyandotte

  13. The Following User Says 'Aye' to OC Richard For This Useful Post:


Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

» Log in

User Name:

Password:

Not a member yet?
Register Now!
Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v4.2.0