Pleating options and double-checking calculations for kilt-like kilted skirt

[Barb T]

Does anyone have any thoughts on my calculations for the fabric amount?

26" waist, 39" hip -> 16" of pleating at waist, 24" of pleating at hip to get ~60% pleats (more feminine, will allow for future weight gain). So if I want 1" wide pleats at the hip, I need 24 pleats with 2 pleats per 8.25" = 24*(8.25"/2) = 99" for the pleating and (40"-24")*2 = 32" for the two aprons -> 3.7 yards/3.4 meters for both. I was thinking about getting 4 meters (4.4 yards) which would give me an extra 26.5" for apron pleats, fringe, centering front apron, etc. Do you think that's enough?

If this were a traditional kilt, you would have about 20" of pleats. Having 24" of pleats would look odd in a trad kilt on someone your size and would make the apron look unusually small (like the kilt was made for someone bigger than you, and you took in the apron to make it 4" smaller). Having said that, I don't know if you are actually interested in making a trad kilt, so it depends on whether you want this to look like a traditional kilt or not. You can, of course, make it any way you want.

If you decide to make it 60% pleats in order to let it out for future weight gain, you will need to put extra fabric into the facing of the apron and underapron, plus put in a hidden pleat in both the apron and underapron to store enough tartan to make the apron bigger in the future. You can't just switch some pleats into a bigger apron, because all the pleats will be cut out to reduce bulk in the pleats above the bottom of the fell.

If you were making a trad knife pleated kilt or a reverse Kingussie, you would need more than a yard each for the apron and a yard for the underapron (and that's not counting a hidden pleat and extra-large facings), plus tartan for the pleats. If you had 1" pleats at 1 pleat per sett (as per your later post), you would need 20x8.25" = 4.6 yards for the pleats. So, at a minimum, you would need about 7 yards for someone your size. I would, for example, buy 6 yards of tartan for an 10-year-old Highland dancer. That's just a comparison for what I would use for a trad kilt. If you don't want to make a trad kilt, of course, you could make do with however much you wanted to buy.

I assume that single width tartan will make a kilt long enough for what you have in mind?

Just want to warn you that there are actually no instructions in the book for a reverse Kingussie, so you would have to wing the layout, the 2nd half of the pleats, the basting, the steeking, etc.

[hmonroe]

If you were making a trad knife pleated kilt or a reverse Kingussie, you would need more than a yard each for the apron and a yard for the underapron (and that's not counting a hidden pleat and extra-large facings), plus tartan for the pleats.

First of all, thank you for your detailed reply! Let me just make sure I understand -- so I would need however much in pleating plus a little over 2 extra yards for both aprons? So let's say I want 20-22" in pleating and counting pixels is pretty close to the actual measurements in inches. To get the look of my second round of pictures:

with waist like this, therefore avoiding disappearing stripes:
WaistofPleatedTriple.png

and hips/below like this:
ReverseKingussie.png

the pleats would be 1 1/3" wide at the hip. I don't think I can get smaller pleats that that without either losing stripes or making a red lawn chair. This would make 16 pleats give a little over 21", which would be a little bigger than traditional but not crazy. So then my pleating would be 16*8.25" = 3.7 yards + 2+ yards for apron = 6 yards (5.5 meters) total? Did I do that right?

[Barb T]

I assume you know for sure that the HoE Muted Munro has a sett size of 8 1/4"?

If you want 21" in the pleats at the hips, the waist in the pleats is likely to be non-standard, too (i.e., you won't do the splits like you would for a trad kilt). So, for the sake of estimating, let's say that the waist will be split evenly and have 13" in the pleats.

Pleat size at waist: 13/16"
Pleat size at hips: 1 5/16"

So, I scaled the Muted Munro thumbnail from the HoE site to a sett size of 8 1/4" and put the pleat size on it:



If you want to see what the pleats will look like, you really need to do a composite with tapered pleats. I chopped out the relevant pleat piece outlined by the lines above and composited what the pleats would like with taper. Remember when you look at the image below that, above the waist, the pleats will be straight and not tapered, and ditto below the bottom of the fell. What you see below is as close to being in scale as possible, provided that the sett size is actually 8 1/4".



Dunno if that helps or not.

[hmonroe]

Dunno if that helps or not.

That is incredibly helpful! You are going so above and beyond in my project and I am very grateful.

HoE says that the sett size is 21cm which is 8.27".

It looks like 7/8" at the waist to 1 5/16" at the hip would maintain the same split at waist and hip as a percentage. That would make the waist 14" pleats/12" apron and the hip 21" pleats/18" apron. However, I am about to turn 30 and unfortunately expect that I won't have my waist size forever. Would you suggest adjusting the split accordingly? I'm sure you go over this in your book, which arrives to me on Thursday.

It also surprises me that we aren't factoring in any ease - is that built into the apron pleats and therefore unnecessary here? This is all very different from sewing a dress from a pattern! I'm used to buying the suggested fabric amount and adding a couple of pattern repeats to make sure I can match seams.

A top band on a kilt is put on differently than the waist band on a skirt, and all you need to have is enough to stitch a seam at the top edge of the kilt and fold it just over the top. The lining is stitched by hand about 1/8" below to top edge of the kilt on the inside, so all you have to do is have enough tartan to come just over the top edge and about 1/4" down on the inside of the kilt (i.e., it doesn't get folded double like a waist band)

I'm sure I'll have a better idea after reading through your book when it arrives! But it sounds to me like it's more like binding a seam than attaching a waistband.

Thank you again for all of the information! I am so excited for this project. I'll wait to buy the real fabric until I've read through the book and have practiced matching some scrap plaid for 16 pleats to make sure it's within my capabilities.

[Barb T]

It also surprises me that we aren't factoring in any ease.

A kilt actually fits close to the body - it can't be worn loose, so there isn't any "ease", as there would be with a dress or a shirt. The way to factor in potential future growth is to make the kilt measurements an inch or more bigger than the current measurements but put the buckles on at the person's current size. That way, the kilt fits snugly now but the buckles can be moved when the person gets bigger (see http://www.xmarksthescot.com/forum/f...-larger-78931/).

It seems like the next step is to try practicing 16 precise pleats on cheap plaid.

It's actually much easier to stitch and shape pleats in wool kilting tartan than it is in cheap poly or cotton fabric. Because you stitch only one pleat at at time when making a kilt, and because you can always take a pleat out, you could just wait to practice until you get your tartan.

[hmonroe]

I just wanted to update this with my (minimal) progress so far! I decided on

1) a pleating scheme: per Pleater's suggestion, I will be doing a reverse Kingussie pleated to the red block
2) my splits: per Barbara's book to accommodate a prominent seat, I will do 18 pleats with 14"A/13.5"P for the waist and 20"A/21.375"P for the hips, which should be about 1.5" too big in circumference and thus accommodate weight changes. I will place the buckles a little tighter for my current weight
3) to maximize length, I will do a crosswise grain waistband - hopefully it will match relatively well

I started my pleating but wasn't happy with the stripe matching so just ripped it out and will start again. But I have attached a picture of the first couple of pleats from before the ripping to give an idea of how it will look! It became clear upon stretching it out that I wouldn't be happy with the stripes, which were about one thread off in several places.

IMG_20200207_180002.jpg

Thanks for all of the help so far!

[Barb T]

Hi,

Were you intending to stitch the pleats according to the method in The Art of Kiltmaking? If so, you haven't done it the way that's shown in the book. It looks like you've folded and pinned a pleat and are stitching it down to just one thickness of the tartan (but maybe I'm misinterpreting your picture?). In the book, the instructions are to fold the next pleat to the correct width and sew the previous pleat to the newly folded one through two thickness so that you can run your hand along the edge of the pleat as you sew, rather than bunching all the fabric up in your left hand. Stitching through only one thickness is a method I would use for a box pleated kilt but not for knife pleats.

Anyway, here's an illustration of the method in the book:

[hmonroe]

My long reply somehow seems to have been deleted!

Dunno if that helps or not.

That was very, very helpful. Thank you so much for going so above and beyond for my project. It seems like the next step is to try practicing 16 precise pleats on cheap plaid and wait for your book to arrive (on Thursday!) and read through it. I will come back with any questions before buying my fabric!