Semi-Dress or Daywear?

[KennethSime]

Good advice has been already given and I can add little to it. In fact I could have almost said that myself, word for word! But......avoid the Windsor knot.

An example of a traditional kilted Highland Scot, in Scotland . Details will differ with levels of formality and individual choices, but follow this theme in your mind and you will be not far wrong for the level attire you describe. Although the bonnet and cromach could be put aside for most occasions.

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You are in your picture as am I, in my picture, wearing lounge/business suit equivalent and is perfectly acceptable attire for any event, day or evening, where you would wear a suit. It can also be worn without a waistcoat and without a tie, but with the jacket quite correctly for less smart events.

Thanks Jock! Really appreciate your feedback. About the knot - I'm not terribly familiar with tie knots, although I know there are others. What do you recommend?

[Jock Scot]

Thanks Jock! Really appreciate your feedback. About the knot - I'm not terribly familiar with tie knots, although I know there are others. What do you recommend?

In truth, I am not too sure what the knot that I use is called. Its just a knot that we used at school, amongst my family and others of my acquaintance use. I think, however, that the knot I use might be called the "four in hand" knot. Whatever its called its dead easy to tie and makes a smaller knot.

The Windsor knot is not popular with the older generation and past generations, in the UK, due to the late Duke of Windsor's lack of historical popularity in the 1930's/40's and later. Mud sticks! Also, as you have found out, the Windsor knot can make a bulky knot with some materials.

[Father Bill]

Here are some options for you: https://www.theknot.com/content/how-to-tie-a-tie To me it depends on the length and angle of the shirt's collar, so you may need to have a couple of knots in your repertoire.

[Jock Scot]

Here are some options for you: https://www.theknot.com/content/how-to-tie-a-tie To me it depends on the length and angle of the shirt's collar, so you may need to have a couple of knots in your repertoire.

Looking at your handy chart Bill, it looks like the knot that I use for tying my tie, is indeed a "four in hand" knot. Thanks.

[figheadair]

Looking at your handy chart Bill, it looks like the knot that I use for tying my tie, is indeed a "four in hand" knot. Thanks.

Me too. It was ' the way it was done' at school and in the military. I can just image the 'Extras' one would have got for turning up on parade wearing a Windsor Knot. It might just have lead to one being described, incorrectly in this case, as a Pratt.

[gsmacleod]

Jock and McMurdo have provided some great visual examples; both of them have helped shape how I approach wearing the kilt and I'll offer a couple of recent examples of daywear.

As to the tie, I tend to do a half-windsor although until recently, I thought I was using a four in hand. I rarely use a full-windsor anymore unless I have a really long tie or a very wide collar spread.

I also no longer worry much about matching and don't even worry about matching leathers anymore.

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Shane

[MichiganKyle]

Whenever I wear a non-bowtie, I pretty much always go with a half Windsor. Dead simple and I love the symmetry. Plus you can easily loosen it with the knot in place, which means if you get it tied once you can quite often just leave the knot in it for the times when you need a tie in a hurry. In fact, it's so simple to use I've always kind of wondered why people would go with a clip-on tie instead (other than obvious use cases like law enforcement, etc.).

[FossilHunter]

In truth, I am not too sure what the knot that I use is called. Its just a knot that we used at school, amongst my family and others of my acquaintance use. I think, however, that the knot I use might be called the "four in hand" knot. Whatever its called its dead easy to tie and makes a smaller knot.

The Windsor knot is not popular with the older generation and past generations, in the UK, due to the late Duke of Windsor's lack of historical popularity in the 1930's/40's and later. Mud sticks! Also, as you have found out, the Windsor knot can make a bulky knot with some materials.

The half windsor also produces a fairly small knot. I know some prefer the asymmetry of the four-in-hand though.

[KennethSime]

Thank you gentlemen, I'll play around a bit. I like the idea of an easier-to-tie knot, and I also like the idea of doing something a bit less common (and a bit more Scottish).

Cheers!

[GG]

Hi Kenneth,

I just came across this thread. Let me start by saying that you look absolute good on all pictures, meaning on those in the album, too.

And in general: I have not been active here for quite some time. Five years, except for two contributions, it is. This, therefore, is sort of being back.

When I saw the headline I immediately thought of sporrans, daywear, or semi-dress. But you are thinking of the total appearance, I understand. And why not, even if not usual, use these terms about dressing?
So, what do you have in mind, when dressing in a jacket, perhaps a waistcoat, a tie, a kilt pin, flashes, and some shoes?

The shoes are only vaguely to see on your pictures, telling me that you are not focusing on them. Therefore, let me just say, that for casual kilt wear they are great, but for dress-up situations, they are not. For example, they are not appropriate for an evening at the opera house or concert hall.
But the rest of your outfit is. Even if some might believe, a semi-dress sporran should then have been a better choice.

Before you are reading further, I’m not Scottish, and I have no intentions to look Scottish, just being regarded a man in a kilt. My rules to follow are accordingly more about aesthetics in general, than those “established” ones for wearing a kilt and accessories the correct way.

To me correct rules are:
1. Each at its time
2. Color coordination
3. Simplicity in design

Ad 1) Accessorize the kilt in accordance with situation or task. That means, what would you wear together with fine shorts, just shorts, branded jeans, just jeans, a business suit, a tux, or white tee? The kilt itself should also match the situation, of course.
My advice: Use the same things on your upper body, and your feet as you should have been wearing for the purpose you have in mind.
Two or three years ago, I on the harbour of Split in Croatia, saw a man in a heavyweight, probably 8 yard-kilt, thick kilt hose, a black Argyle, shirt, and a tie. I cannot tell if he had also a waistcoat on. He drew attention to himself, but people soon looked away again, as did they feel pity for him. Like did I. And not because of the kilt, or a kilt, but because he looked out of place that hot, sunny day where other were in t-shirts and shorts and some women in short summerly skirts or dresses.

Ad 2) I have read before, like it was said at the beginning of this thread, that Scotsmen do not put the same attention to color coordination, as do Americans. Or Scandinavians like me.
I prefer red tie and red flashes. Or green tie and green flashes.

Ad 3) As you probably know, good Danish and Scandinavian design is based upon simplicity. That might be the reason why I consider less to be more. When it comes to kilt wearing, I for casual and smart casual wear, will never wear flashes, almost never a kit pin, never a bonnet, just an appropriate kilt. On most days kilt hose, often a belt, seldom a kilt pin. And for sporran I always and for all purposes prefer a plain leather sporran in a leather strap; semi-dress and dress sporrans being too much for my taste.


The way I was dressed in Split, Croatia, at 30 degrees Celsius or 86F. USA Kilts Casual.


Dressed up for the concert hall. With a semi-dress sporran.


For casual wear I will sometimes ditch the sporran.



5 yard kilt, Colquhoun tartan. Manhattan Upper West.

Now, if being around people, putting emphasis in that “kilt rules” must be strictly followed, follow them. Otherwise, the best about knowing rules often is, at least to my opinion. that you know when you are breaking them.

But even if following your own rules, do your best to always be aesthetically “correct”. What that means, is again subject to discussion. And most likely a function of culture and tradition.

Greg