The joys and dangers of Ebay pipes

[WalesLax]

interesting set - I was going to do a little research, but they were gone/sold by the time I saw this!

Ian Murray bagpipes, full imitation ivory, Sterling Silver slides, with an astonishingly low $700 Buy It Now.

I don't know anything about Ian Murray pipes. Why are these priced so low? They won't last long, I assume.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/14600748622...=4%7C10&edge=0

[OC Richard]

interesting set - I was going to do a little research, but they were gone/sold by the time I saw this!

I figured as much!

I almost hit the Buy-It-Now button myself, and I don't know anything about Ian Murray pipes, nor do I need another set!

I did hit the BIN button yesterday however, a Lochcarron-labelled tweed Argyll jacket in my size for $35.

[YOJiMBO20]

Looks like he learned pipe making from the Gillanders family, so I imagine his pipes would be along the lines of them.

Whoever got those got them for a song, and could probably easily turn around and sell them for twice the price.

[OC Richard]

Looks like he learned pipe making from the Gillanders family, so I imagine his pipes would be along the lines of them.

On that topic, it's interesting how much the Highland pipemaking world has changed over the last 20 years or so.

Back in the 1970s and 1980s I was struck by the huge difference between the way Highland pipe makers and Baroque flute makers talked about their design process and advertised their products.

Baroque flutemakers had the attitude that it's not up to modern makers and players to impose their opinions upon the instruments, rather, it's up to the makers to find the best-surviving original instruments that exist and copy them as exactly as possible, and up to the players to play either original instruments or the best copies and let the instruments inform them how they want to played and how they want to sound.

A Baroque flutemaker's catalogue would list a series of different models, each a painstaking copy of a specific and named 200-year-old original.

In the Highland piping world all the good players played pipes made from around 1890 to around 1930. This suggested that they didn't think highly of modern pipes. Many made statements to that effect.

Coming from the Baroque flute world it just seemed crazy. The best players are telling you what the best instruments are! Why not painstakingly copy them? Have a catalogue that lists your copies of various named original pipes.

But no, the pipemakers of 1970s and 1980s all seemed to be trying to re-invent the wheel. Beyond that, there was never anything said about their design process.

At that time I was trying to find out who made the most accurate reproductions of vintage Henderson pipes but contacting various makers got me nowhere. Nobody seemed to want to discuss their designs.

Instead, I kept getting "well you know that __________ (current pipemaker) did their apprenticeship under __________ (old maker)".

Which doesn't tell you anything. Because you could play and examine a pipe by _________ (current pipemaker) and compare it side-by-side with a pipe by _____________ (old maker) and find that they're completely different both in specs and in sound.

Which isn't to say that some pipemakers didn't continue to make pipes with the exact specs of the old firm they did their apprenticeship with back in the 1940s or whatever, I'm sure some did, but it can be demonstrated that some didn't.

Now things have come full circle and several current pipemakers are doing exactly what the Baroque flutemakers have long done.

We can buy a set of new pipes based on Con Houlihan's 1924 Hendersons, or based on John MacDonald's 1860 MacDougalls, or based on Stuart Liddell's MacRaes, and several others.

[SF Jeff]

Anyone have an opinion on these? Not looking to buy, just curious. Love the case though.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/186593533371

EDIT:
OK never mind. I just saw that OC Rich posted these previously.

[OC Richard]

I had a bandmate years ago who played a Sinclair set just like that and the tone was really nice.

I'm amazed that no-one has snapped these up.

It's true that Sinclair did narrow their bores around the same time most pipemakers did.

You probably know the Sinclair story. In brief:

1926 William Sinclair Jr begins apprenticeship with James Robertson.

1931 Sinclair shop opens. Original Sinclairs had big-bore "classic specs" drones.

1946 Sinclairs marketed by Hugh MacPherson stamped "Sinclair MacPherson".

1947 bores narrowed.

1957 Hugh MacPherson bought Sinclair, pipes stamped MacPherson. (These pipes can be tricky to distinguish from Sinclairs. I tried to reed up a couple of these MacPherson pipes and the drones weren't nearly as good as actual Sinclairs made in the Sinclair shop.)

1962 Sinclair re-started under William Sinclair Jr and Allistair Sinclair (16) "all-new tooling, narrower bores".

c1995-1996 bores widened, a return to "classic specs" drones.

2019 Allistair Sinclair passes. Sinclair shop closes.

2021 Ewan Sinclair and Tim Gellaitry reopen Sinclair shop. (A bandmate has a recent Sinclair set and the tone is amazing.)

What I gather is that Sinclairs made prior to 1947 and after 1995 are more sought-after.

[OC Richard]

Here are Kron pipes made in the middle of the Dave Atherton era for a really good price.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/26688919298...ndition=4%7C10

A band-made plays a set of these Atherton Krons and the tone is outstanding.

His set is just like this Ebay set, plain Sterling Silver ferrules and imitation ivory mounts.

[OC Richard]

This is a "doozy" a modern set of pipes being claimed to be 1930s Hendersons

https://www.ebay.com/itm/33567854560...ndition=4%7C10

That sort of imitation ivory has been used by Dunbar (Canada) for many years, and McCallum (Scotland) switched to it around a decade ago.

I don't know if any other pipemakers have switched to it. What's nice is that it's very durable.

Yes I know that people have pipes "restored" (a very misleading term, "transformed" or "mutilated" would be more accurate) but this looks 100% like a new set of pipes.

Any idea as to maker?

[JPS]

This is a "doozy" a modern set of pipes being claimed to be 1930s Hendersons

https://www.ebay.com/itm/33567854560...ndition=4%7C10

That sort of imitation ivory has been used by Dunbar (Canada) for many years, and McCallum (Scotland) switched to it around a decade ago.

I don't know if any other pipemakers have switched to it. What's nice is that it's very durable.

Yes I know that people have pipes "restored" (a very misleading term, "transformed" or "mutilated" would be more accurate) but this looks 100% like a new set of pipes.

Any idea as to maker?

Yikes. My guess is they're seeing Henderson on the chanter and making an assumption about the pipes. The chanter, though, is a Peter Henderson model from RG Hardie.

I'd say the pipes are likely a recent set of Hardies, their RGH02, probably. Those start around $1300 new, so the asking price is unreasonable, to say the least.