Just what makes a traditional kilt?

[Jock Scot]

Reading the many threads posted here on this website over the years, it now appears to me that the description-----definition---- of a "Traditional Kilt" has been adjusted more than somewhat compared to what I am used to. Am I right?

Sorry chaps, the title of this thread should read," Just what Makes A traditional kilt?"

[Father Bill]

Sorry chaps, the title of this thread should read," Just what Makes A traditional kilt?"

Shall I adjust it?

[Jock Scot]

Shall I adjust it?

Yes please Bill, that would be very kind.

[Father Bill]

Yes please Bill, that would be very kind.

Done with pleasure!

[Jock Scot]

Thank you Bill.

[Ivor]

You can’t just leave it without giving your understanding of what makes a traditional kilt, Jock.
My understanding is that it is a wrap-around garment for the lower body made from woollen fabric woven in a tartan pattern with a flat apron at the front and pleated at the back. It is worn at the natural waist and its length is to the top of the kneecap. Anything else is simply a variation of this.

[Jock Scot]

You can’t just leave it without giving your understanding of what makes a traditional kilt, Jock.
My understanding is that it is a wrap-around garment for the lower body made from woollen fabric woven in a tartan pattern with a flat apron at the front and pleated at the back. It is worn at the natural waist and its length is to the top of the kneecap. Anything else is simply a variation of this.

Well actually I have intentionally left the question without "steering it". Just to see where the conversation leads us. Indeed I do have my own ideas but for now, I would prefer others to voice theirs.

[Janner52]

I would add to Ivor’s description “Historically worn by men from the Highlands of Scotland and manufactured from tartan or tweed material”.

[OC Richard]

I wonder if Jock is referring to people using the term "traditional kilt" to refer to a particular kind of historical kilt, the kilt of the first quarter of the 19th century (if I understand them correctly).

Many people use the terms "traditional" and "historical" interchangeably, but in music and other areas the words have nearly opposite meanings.

Here's a crude but useful chart

(unknown origin to...) > (dates of second iteration) > (dates of third iteration) > (dates of fourth iteration to its modern form.)

A "traditional" thing is the whole shebang.

A traditional thing is a modern thing. It's still in use. And it can trace its history through a number of evolutionary states in an unbroken chain back to an unknown origin.

Now, let's look a couple ways that a thing can be not traditional.

The thing can have ceased to be in use at some period in the past. Its chart looks like this:

(unknown origin to...) > (dates of second iteration) > (dates of third iteration) > (went out of use by a particular date.)

Another way is for a modern person to go back to one of the earlier (no longer current) stages in the evolution, pluck it out, and revive it.

That's a "revival" thing, a "historical" thing, not a "traditional" thing.

[kilted2000]

I wonder if Jock is referring to people using the term "traditional kilt" to refer to a particular kind of historical kilt, the kilt of the first quarter of the 19th century (if I understand them correctly).

Many people use the terms "traditional" and "historical" interchangeably, but in music and other areas the words have nearly opposite meanings.

Here's a crude but useful chart

(unknown origin to...) > (dates of second iteration) > (dates of third iteration) > (dates of fourth iteration to its modern form.)

A "traditional" thing is the whole shebang.

A traditional thing is a modern thing. It's still in use. And it can trace its history through a number of evolutionary states in an unbroken chain back to an unknown origin.

Now, let's look a couple ways that a thing can be not traditional.

The thing can have ceased to be in use at some period in the past. Its chart looks like this:

(unknown origin to...) > (dates of second iteration) > (dates of third iteration) > (went out of use by a particular date.)

Another way is for a modern person to go back to one of the earlier (no longer current) stages in the evolution, pluck it out, and revive it.

That's a "revival" thing, a "historical" thing, not a "traditional" thing.

So where does that leave modern kilts stemming from 19th century highland revival and romanticism?