Where to get a high quality Ghillie Shirt (100% cotton)

[Jock Scot]

The last two posts are absolutely correct , that people can wear what they like, when they like. The problem, yes alright it is my problem, is that it gives the unknowing the opportunity of gaining a false impression. "THAT WONT HAPPEN!" I hear you both say. Really?

What about the Braveheart syndrome? What about the Highlander syndrome? What about the many romantic books and films made about Scotland in the past? What about the misguided posts on this website? They ALL lead the unknowing astray. I am not necessarily blaming them totally for their impressions, but it does get tiresome when a coach load of tourists arrive with starry eyed expectations, gained from films, TV, books and events like yours, of what they expect Scotland to be. I do not exclude the tourist industry from criticism either, as they perpetuate the myths ruthlessly. "No that can't happen!" I hear you say. Oh yes it does and it happened here again yesterday, last week and......and ...... and.... and sadly it will continue!

[jsrnephdoc]

The last two posts are absolutely correct , that people can wear what they like, when they like. The problem, yes alright it is my problem, is that it gives the unknowing the opportunity of gaining a false impression. "THAT WONT HAPPEN!" I hear you both say. Really?

I'll answer that neither OC Richard nor I have made such a claim. I suspect that the three of us would all agree that "history" itself is in so many ways many "stories" about how we got to where we are. Telling those stories can improve or distort accuracy, and the latter is abundant everywhere, depending only partly on the intent of the storyteller.

Relating to my FAR TOO FEW visits to the European countries where my ancestors lived, prime examples are monuments from war. I've mentioned here that my very first visit to Scotland followed by only a day several disturbing hours at one of THE most sobering "historical" monuments of the last century, the WWI Verdun War Memorial, which just SCREAMS "let's remember this horror so we never repeat it." That message, while SO vividly presented (the very earth of the rolling hillsides surrounding the monument is pockmarked by gigantic acneiform craters from year upon year of senseless two-way artillery bombardment). One of the REAL tragedies, of course, is that no matter how sobering and troubling the story, we managed to deny it less than a decade after the memorial was erected.

And, one of the things that made my first visit to Scotland troubling was that, barely 24 hours later, the Edinburgh Castle Museum, taking a MUCH longer view of CENTURIES of "history" told ME a story that I've summarized as "yeah, we know them English have almost exterminated us SO many times, but just give us one more chance with our Claymores and Dirks and Sgian dubhs against their Nukes, tanks, and missiles, and we'll SLAUGHTER 'em all." (I know that's not the REAL intended message, but that inference is hard to escape).

Then there's the crown jewel of Edinburgh tourism, the Royal Military Tattoo. Is it not curious that most of the performer groups that come together at the Castle's outdoor promenade come to Scotland from other places around the globe that were once subjugated by the English?

"Fashion" changes for a reason—more accurately, for a jumble of competing reasons. If sartorial accuracy about the kilt required faithful and never-changing reproduction of what came before, we'd all lie down on the grass next to our sheep, bunching up last night's scratchy wool protection against the elements into the ancient predecessor of pleats. On the other hand, the telling of the HISTORY of tartan and the kilt can include fascinating "stories" of its evolution (factual AND ridiculous) just in the way we wear it, because the only thing that's certain is that if we as cultures or even as a species are around 100, 50, or even 10 years from now, we won't be telling exactly the same story in exactly the same way as we do today. And, I'll wager we'll never surmount that tension between the real and the fabricated.

[Jock Scot]

I'll answer that neither OC Richard nor I have made such a claim. I suspect that the three of us would all agree that "history" itself is in so many ways many "stories" about how we got to where we are. Telling those stories can improve or distort accuracy, and the latter is abundant everywhere, depending only partly on the intent of the storyteller.

Relating to my FAR TOO FEW visits to the European countries where my ancestors lived, prime examples are monuments from war. I've mentioned here that my very first visit to Scotland followed by only a day several disturbing hours at one of THE most sobering "historical" monuments of the last century, the WWI Verdun War Memorial, which just SCREAMS "let's remember this horror so we never repeat it." That message, while SO vividly presented (the very earth of the rolling hillsides surrounding the monument is pockmarked by gigantic acneiform craters from year upon year of senseless two-way artillery bombardment). One of the REAL tragedies, of course, is that no matter how sobering and troubling the story, we managed to deny it less than a decade after the memorial was erected.

And, one of the things that made my first visit to Scotland troubling was that, barely 24 hours later, the Edinburgh Castle Museum, taking a MUCH longer view of CENTURIES of "history" told ME a story that I've summarized as "yeah, we know them English have almost exterminated us SO many times, but just give us one more chance with our Claymores and Dirks and Sgian dubhs against their Nukes, tanks, and missiles, and we'll SLAUGHTER 'em all." (I know that's not the REAL intended message, but that inference is hard to escape).

Then there's the crown jewel of Edinburgh tourism, the Royal Military Tattoo. Is it not curious that most of the performer groups that come together at the Castle's outdoor promenade come to Scotland from other places around the globe that were once subjugated by the English?

"Fashion" changes for a reason—more accurately, for a jumble of competing reasons. If sartorial accuracy about the kilt required faithful and never-changing reproduction of what came before, we'd all lie down on the grass next to our sheep, bunching up last night's scratchy wool protection against the elements into the ancient predecessor of pleats. On the other hand, the telling of the HISTORY of tartan and the kilt can include fascinating "stories" of its evolution (factual AND ridiculous) just in the way we wear it, because the only thing that's certain is that if we as cultures or even as a species are around 100, 50, or even 10 years from now, we won't be telling exactly the same story in exactly the same way as we do today. And, I'll wager we'll never surmount that tension between the real and the fabricated.

Your post would be rather more accurate if you changed “English” to “ British”. I am sorry to say that the Scots often have an unfortunate habit of blaming the English for everything bad in their history. For example more Scots fought on the BRITISH side than English at the battle of Culloden. I am not for one second saying that the English were entirely blameless in forming parts of Scottish history though! But again it’s another example of the starry eyed “ biscuit tin” version of Scottish history that our Country churns out on a daily basis.

Yes the First World War battlefields are a sobering sight , particularly if you have relatives lying there with no known graves. One can only but hope that the human race would learn from these dreadful events. A forlorn hope it seems!

[jsrnephdoc]

more Scots fought on the BRITISH side than English at the battle of Culloden. I am not for one second saying that the English were entirely blameless in forming parts of Scottish history though! But again it’s another example of the starry eyed “biscuit tin” version of Scottish history that our Country churns out on a daily basis.

Far be it from me to attempt (foolishly) to "teach" Scottish history to a Scot! However, I think on this topic we're using different words and different slants to say much the same thing. For example, I'd guess that if you asked Americans in possession of commercial Pipes and Drums recordings, most would have no idea whether the Royal Scotts Dragoon Guards and the Black Watch are the same thing or different. And if you asked the same folks (with their record collections indicating their interest in Scottish history) what the role of the Black Watch was at Culloden, a majority would answer that they were among Prince Charlie's warriors, attempting to terrify the "English" with their most fearsome weapons, the Pipes, rather than a British infantry regiment attempting to keep the Jacobite rebels in line.

Perhaps another reason for such confusion is that people in one country may tend to look at the histories (plural intended) of another through the lens of their own. Here in the USA, we've traditionally thought of our "Civil War" as our greatest disruption, and because it pitted one region against another, Jacobite rebellions must have been much the same thing. But of course, the goals were FAR different. The Confederate States weren't intending to replace the government in Washington D with another. They wanted complete secession (and a way of life that included subjugation of one race by another, but that was at least partly a convenient substitute for different economics). And yet, while the Jacobites were motivated in part by their religion, and here in America we claim that from the outset, our constitution declared that religion was not a battlefield in Politics, our first Roman Catholic president was elected only recently in our history, and a good bit of opposition to his candidacy came from people who feared his allegiance would be foremost to the Holy Father in Rome.

But, stories sell tickets, hence the popularity of movies like "The Stone of Destiny."

A related question might clarify things for me (or muddle them up still more). My guess is that QE2 was revered as an extraordinarily nice person, and that because of that the "story" of the British Monarchy sold just as well at higher latitudes than it did in London. Does that remain true to this day? From this great distance it appears that King Charles devotes considerable time and effort to convincing his subjects in the highlands of his affection for the Scottish portion of his realm, yet regional political differences; e.g., regarding the wisdom, or lack thereof, of BREXIT, may conflate differences in attitudes towards maintaining the monarchy. (I know that's a long way way from flat caps vs. Balmorals), but, I thought it at least curious that the last tune played by pipers outside St. George's Chapel as QE2 was brought to her final place of internment was The Skye Boat Song (after all, supposedly, she chose the music)!

[Janner52]

Dare I comment that we are a tad off track from the subject of ghillie shirts?

[jsrnephdoc]

Of course, you're correct, and I've pushed those boundaries, but I think it was a natural progression from "there IS no history of the history of Ghillie Shirts" to "how much of 'history' really ever happened," and I don't know whether or even how to divert people asking such questions as a group into a new and very different topic.

Nevertheless, my sincere apologies.

[OC Richard]

I'd guess that if you asked Americans in possession of commercial Pipes and Drums recordings, most would have no idea whether the Royal Scots Dragoon Guards and the Black Watch are the same thing or different.

Ha! You're not wrong!

I hear Americans use goofy terms like "Highland Watch" and "Highlander Guards" all the time, conflating the various regiments.

The record companies (back when records and CDs were a thing) did much to add to the confusion by mixing up the photos they used for the album covers and the music contained on the albums. It's oddly entertaining, spotting these goofups, here are five.

(Just for fun can you list who appears in the photos?)

[Jock Scot]

Yes! Correct labelling and terminology would be a good start, however getting around local and regional terminology could be a tad tricky too. But in spite of that, it would be a great start!

Sadly, too many years have passed with all this nonsense going on, it would take decades to correct and think about the chaos whilst it’s being done! I am glad I won’t be around to suffer it!

[MacKenzie]

All this got me to thinking. I have been in attendance at several occasions where a piper-for-hire played. Their dress choice has ranged from the guy in the YouTube video I posted earlier, to smart, "traditional" daywear, to a full blown drum/pipe major including the bearskin.

So my question for @OC Richard and any other pipers that do gigs like that: Do people ask or comment about what you're wearing?

[jsrnephdoc]

Ha! You're not wrong!

I hear Americans use goofy terms like "Highland Watch" and "Highlander Guards" all the time, conflating the various regiments.

The record companies (back when records and CDs were a thing) did much to add to the confusion by mixing up the photos they used for the album covers and the music contained on the albums. It's oddly entertaining, spotting these goofups, here are five.

(Just for fun can you list who appears in the photos?)

Richard, I tried searching for that old thread, but cannot find it. Can you post a link?