First kilt fabric choices?

[Janner52]

If you are intending to wear your intended kilt in a formal or other smart scenario I would suggest a 13oz wool may be suitable for the Florida climate.
Wool kilts tend to last years and keep their shape well.

[Steve Ashton]

Perhaps the best alternative to wool is true P/V. Now, to get things straight, there are a lot of kilts out there sold as P/V that are not actually a blend of Polyester and Viscose (Rayon in N. America)
To my knowledge there is only one mill weaving true P/V and that is Marton Mills in Otley, England. The fabric they sell is a blend of 60% Polyester and 40% Rayon. If a kilt maker is advertising that their product is made from P/V ask which mill wove the fabric. If they do not say Marton Mills, pass them by.

There are very few makers using Marton Mills P/V. USA Kilts is perhaps the best known and most respected. I would give their Casual model, their Semi-Trad model, their 5 yard model, or their Box Pleated model a good look.

The highlights of what to look for when choosing a kilt that can be worn for dressy occasions are -
The Tartan pattern is aligned perfectly everywhere. This includes not only in the back where the pleats are sewn but at the upper band in the front.
This is unprofessional.


The pleats should hang vertically in the back. The kilt should not look like an "A" line skirt.
This looks bad.


The Tartan pattern in the Pleats should be consistent and even all the way down the pleat. You should not see the Tartan pattern wavy, crooked, or closer to one edge as you look down the pleat.
Avoid this.


The pleats should hang in the back without any waves, or wrinkles. From just a few feet away it should not look like there are any pleats at all.
Run Away, Run Away!


If there are loops on the back of the kilt, they are not belt loops. They are to hold the sporran strap, not hold the kilt up.
Only if you do not care that your kilt will be distorted out of shape very quickly.


Remember that a kilt is not worn like a pair of trousers. The top of the kilt is worn high. And the bottom should show some knee.
If you wear a vest there should be no shirt showing.


More than any other thing that tells a good kilt from a kilt that is not so good is -
If you grab the buckles in the back and pull, you should not see any stretching, which puts stress on the pleat stitching. The stitching will fail.



This is due to the internal construction. The liner inside the kilt is not to keep the kilt clean. If that were true the liner would be removable and washable. The liner is there only to hide the internal strengthening elements built inside.
If you can lift the liner and see nothing underneath, the kilt will fall apart after just a few wearings.


While it is true that nothing looks, hangs, or swishes, like a full Hand-stitched wool kilt made by a custom kiltmaker, it is how the kilt is made, far more than the fabric it is made from, that makes the difference in the lok, and your enjoyment of, your kilt. Here is an example of a 16oz wool kilt flanked by two true P/V kilts.



Oh -- and an edit on fabric weights.
When a seller says an 8 yard kilt, they are talking about the length of the fabric not the width.
Fabric is sold by the length also, but the width is different.
Fabric is sold by the yard at 60 inches in width. This means that one fabric yard is 36 inches X 60 inches.
An 8 yard kilt 24 inches long uses only 40% of 8 fabric yards.

An 8 yard kilt of 16oz fabric will weigh around 50-52 ounces. Or about 3.25 pounds.
True Marton Mills P/V fabric weighs just under 12oz per fabric yard. This means that an 8 yard P/V kilt should weigh about 25.5 oz or between 1.6 and 1.75 pounds.
Most of the Acrylic kilts I have run across weigh about 4-5 oz per fabric yard. So an Acrylic kilt will come in at about 3/4 of a pound.

A good question to ask a kilt seller, is how much does their 8 yard kilt weigh.

[OC Richard]

...one mill weaving true P/V and that is Marton Mills...

If a kilt maker is advertising that their product is made from P/V ask which mill wove the fabric. If they do not say Marton Mills, pass them by.

Steve is bang on, this is the crux of the matter.

AFAIK Marton Mills is the only acceptable alternative to the traditional wool.

Personally, all my kilts are traditional wool kilting cloth.

I always go for 16 ounce because it looks better, feels better, holds pleats better, everything.

I have one 13 ounce kilt (which I had to order due to the pipe band I was playing in at the time).

After wearing 16 ounce kilts repeatedly over months, when I put on that 13 ounce kilt it feels insubstantial and flimsy.

That's just the feeling! It looks perfectly fine, in truth. But I'd never go with anything lighter than that.

(My 13 ounce kilt.)

[User]

For your first kilt, if you're not sure how much you'll be wearing it and want something less expensive, sharp looking, cool for hot weather, and durable for festivals and work, I recommend getting a casual kilt in PV from USAKilts.

They're not quite traditional, but they're pretty close. I've looked at cheaper kilts, and in my opinion, paying the extra for a USAKilts casual kilt in PV is absolutely worth it.

If you wear it for a few months and decide you like it, then I'd drop the extra money for a traditional wool kilt.

A lot of people will recommend going straight for a traditional wool kilt. That's fine advice too. But personally, I've spent money on the good stuff only to realize it wasn't my thing too many times. So I prefer a more cautious approach to spending. And if you end up really liking kilts, having one PV and one wool is a good thing.

P.S. Some people swear that wool kilts are good for hot weather if you get a low yardage kilt. I cannot comment on that yet.

[geomick]

For your first kilt, if you're not sure how much you'll be wearing it and want something less expensive, sharp looking, cool for hot weather, and durable for festivals and work, I recommend getting a casual kilt in PV from USAKilts.

They're not quite traditional, but they're pretty close. I've looked at cheaper kilts, and in my opinion, paying the extra for a USAKilts casual kilt in PV is absolutely worth it.

If you wear it for a few months and decide you like it, then I'd drop the extra money for a traditional wool kilt.

A lot of people will recommend going straight for a traditional wool kilt. That's fine advice too. But personally, I've spent money on the good stuff only to realize it wasn't my thing too many times. So I prefer a more cautious approach to spending. And if you end up really liking kilts, having one PV and one wool is a good thing.

P.S. Some people swear that wool kilts are good for hot weather if you get a low yardage kilt. I cannot comment on that yet.

I would argue in favor of the next step up from USA Kilt, the semi-tradtional PV kilt. I'm not a big velcro fan, so I would rather have the straps of the semi-trad.

[OC Richard]

I'll add to Steve's litany of how kilts can go wrong with this comparison.

On top is a hand-stitched kilt in wool kilting fabric from a UK mill.

At bottom is a kilt sold by a disreputable firm who claims their kilts are Scottish-made, and their low price is due to them being ex-hire.

They're neither. They're new Pakistani-made kilts, crudely machine-stitched out of nasty acrylic.

It's striking to see the differences side-by-side.



(It's strange how the Pakistani kilt has fabric belt loops AND a leather tab.)

[jsrnephdoc]

https://i.postimg.cc/gcx71jyC/Licensed-To-Kilt.jpg[/IMG]

WOW! GREAT post!

I have two (oops, make that THREE—or maybe even FOUR) questions as a result:

1. The photo above suggests that the PV will "buckle" a bit more easily when the wool would probably "sway," is that a fair inference?
2. Is there ANY chance you and Barb Tewksbury will resurrect your "how to make a kilt" seminars? My sister and I live thousands of miles apart, but we truly enjoy long visits (including 2 weeks in Scotland summer of 2023), and Barb has made ONE kilt for me. As a consequence, she suffers through possibly too many emails from me as I try to decide what to have made next. I'm pretty certain you'd have 2, or maybe even 3, including my own spouse, attending one of those courses if you ever did it again.
3. Why is it that your SO important photo shows up in MY response solely as a URL link?
4. What's the provenance of those "shoulder pads" and breast pocket affixed to the sweater of the guy on the left?

And, I LOVED the photo's caption when I resolved the link in my own browser. My license plate says KILTER. My wife often intimates she'll refuse to ride in my car for fear of people (especially now that we live in "Sin City"—where one of the favored attractions is "The Mob Museum"—actually mistaking my purpose in life

[User]

...
Why is it that your SO important photo shows up in MY response solely as a URL link?
...

[IMG
https://i.postimg.cc/gcx71jyC/Licensed-To-Kilt.jpg[/IMG]

You chopped up the link and added bad formatting to it.
1. Remove the bold effect from [IMG
2. Put back in the closing square brace for the opening IMG tag [IMG]
3. If there's a newline after the opening IMG tag, remove that.
Now it will work. You can use the preview button to make sure you've formatted it correctly before posting.

[OC Richard]

What's the provenance of those "shoulder pads" and breast pocket affixed to the sweater of the guy on the left?

That jumper appears to be based on the jumpers used in the British army.

Here's a soldier wearing one.

They have reinforced shoulders and elbows as you can see. There are slots at the shoulder seams for your epaulette to go through. Officers' ranks are displayed on their epaulettes, and sometimes Sergeants' ranks too, though here you see the Pipe Major's stripes etc sewn onto the jumper.

BTW in the UK they're called "jumpers". I think "sweater" is confined to North America.

About the pocket, I don't think I've seen a military jumper with that.

[jsrnephdoc]

That jumper appears to be based on the jumpers used in the British army.

Here's a soldier wearing one.


About the pocket, I don't think I've seen a military jumper with that.

But now I'm curious about the purple bow on the piper's kilt. I've seen those on individuals in pipe bands before and have no understanding of their significance.

And, by the way, I didn't know that the BBC livestreamed the World Piping Championships. I've been watching YouTube videos of the championships while riding my exercise bike. That Inveraray group are REALLY amazing.

This thread made me wonder whether I might save some money by purchasing a PV kilt or two in USA Kilts (Marton Mills-provided) "semi-traditional" construction, until I learned that Marton Mills provides a relatively small spectrum of tartans in that fabric. And, as I mentioned, to me your photo of the 3 kilters, one in PV, suggests that the fabric is a bit TOO flexible to sway in the same fashion as a good heavyweight wool does. Am I inferring that correctly?

Lastly, I'm now thinking of a "Piping Frenzy" Scotland vacation next August—Edinburgh for the Tattoo, Glasgow for the worlds, and (maybe) Perth for the UK championships (my initial searching informed me that the UK championships were canceled this year). Do the "heavy hitter" large regimental bands participate in either of those competitions?

If intentions become reality, do you have any suggestions regarding places to visit related to Scottish attire? We loved our stop at Lochcarron in 2023, but I don't believe any of the other major mills offer tours. And, at our last visit, Glasgow was encumbered by the World Cycling Championships, limiting our explorations. Are there places to visit there for someone from the US interested in tartan?