First kilt fabric choices?

[OC Richard]

What's the provenance of those "shoulder pads" and breast pocket affixed to the sweater of the guy on the left?

That jumper appears to be based on the jumpers used in the British army.

Here's a soldier wearing one.

They have reinforced shoulders and elbows as you can see. There are slots at the shoulder seams for your epaulette to go through. Officers' ranks are displayed on their epaulettes, and sometimes Sergeants' ranks too, though here you see the Pipe Major's stripes etc sewn onto the jumper.

BTW in the UK they're called "jumpers". I think "sweater" is confined to North America.

About the pocket, I don't think I've seen a military jumper with that.

[jsrnephdoc]

That jumper appears to be based on the jumpers used in the British army.

Here's a soldier wearing one.


About the pocket, I don't think I've seen a military jumper with that.

But now I'm curious about the purple bow on the piper's kilt. I've seen those on individuals in pipe bands before and have no understanding of their significance.

And, by the way, I didn't know that the BBC livestreamed the World Piping Championships. I've been watching YouTube videos of the championships while riding my exercise bike. That Inveraray group are REALLY amazing.

This thread made me wonder whether I might save some money by purchasing a PV kilt or two in USA Kilts (Marton Mills-provided) "semi-traditional" construction, until I learned that Marton Mills provides a relatively small spectrum of tartans in that fabric. And, as I mentioned, to me your photo of the 3 kilters, one in PV, suggests that the fabric is a bit TOO flexible to sway in the same fashion as a good heavyweight wool does. Am I inferring that correctly?

Lastly, I'm now thinking of a "Piping Frenzy" Scotland vacation next August—Edinburgh for the Tattoo, Glasgow for the worlds, and (maybe) Perth for the UK championships (my initial searching informed me that the UK championships were canceled this year). Do the "heavy hitter" large regimental bands participate in either of those competitions?

If intentions become reality, do you have any suggestions regarding places to visit related to Scottish attire? We loved our stop at Lochcarron in 2023, but I don't believe any of the other major mills offer tours. And, at our last visit, Glasgow was encumbered by the World Cycling Championships, limiting our explorations. Are there places to visit there for someone from the US interested in tartan?

[User]

But now I'm curious about the purple bow on the piper's kilt. I've seen those on individuals in pipe bands before and have no understanding of their significance.
...

I remember reading a discussion about kilt ribbons, bows, and rosettes here: https://www.xmarksthescot.com/forum/...uestion-88961/

[Steve Ashton]

The "Woolly Pully" sweater/jumper in the photo is a civilian version of the issue sweater/jumper of the Canadian military forces.
The guy wearing it was a tanker in the Canadian Forces with service in Afganistan.

[OC Richard]

But now I'm curious about the purple bow on the piper's kilt.

Yes they look purplish there, but they're the same tartan as the kilt.

Those specific bows are unique to The Black Watch. They're worn by Sergeants and above.

The Black Watch wears, not surprisingly, the Black Watch tartan, and Sergeants and Officers wear grass green bows (left).

But! Black Watch pipers don't wear the Black Watch tartan, they wear the Royal Stewart tartan.

So in the Black Watch the Pipe Sergeant and Pipe Major wear Royal Stewart bows (right).



But wait! There's more! Because nothing in the military is simple.

The pipers of The Scots Guards also wear Royal Stewart kilts, but with Royal Stewart rosettes.

(You can see the holes where the kilt pin goes.)



And if you think that's overdoing things, wait to you see the complicated setup on the Sergeants and Officers kilts of the Argyll & Sutherland Highlanders.

There's an embroidered sort of cartouche-thing with three complicated embroidered star-things, over the top of that there are two things which are bows on top of rosettes.

And two wee bow-rosette things attached to one of the pleats in the back of the kilt.



Here's a kilt with the front bow/rosettes removed so you can see the embroidery pattern.

[Kitfoxdave]

As a fellow Floridian on the Treasure coast, I highly recommend a Poly Viscose kilt for your first kilt....they are considerably cooler than the 13 oz wool kilts in the Florida heat and humidity!
I wear a kilt daily in this environment and have done so for a few years.
In addition to being lighter weight and cooler when the temps exceed 85 degrees.... PV kilts are washable (cold water gentle cycle) hang to dry (overnight in a garage works well, outside =fade in strong sunshine!)
Where to buy? There are choices... USA Kilts casual kilt are really nice (velcro fastening is real good if your waist measurement is going up and down) I own 4 of these... St Kilda Kilts made to measure PV kilt is a great choice as well! They are also great people to do buainess with.

13 oz wool kilt, for nice occasions are suitable up to about 75 degrees outside... good in A/C venues.... look real nice. Are heavier, but can be worn in a Cat 1 hurricane as long as you are mindful of wind direction... (yes I have tested it!) Cleaning is more of a challange, I would recommend talking to a local pipe band to see who is a good cleaner in your area.

In short, for your first kilt, do yourself a favor and get a PV kilt from a GOOD maker with UK sourced tartan such as Martin Mills. This will likely be the kilt you wear from March through October... The comfort compared to shorts is extremely better!

I own about 13 kilts, a couple acrylic (poor choice) 5 PV Martin Mills tartan from USA kilts and St Kilda Kilts, 2 16 oz 8 yard wool kilts, and the rest 13 oz 8 yard wool kilts.

Wish you all the best on your kilt aquisitions... one is a good start...

[Kitfoxdave]

I forgot to mention that USA kilts is running a clearance on PV kilts in their Sterling Tartan line... a good place to start!

[jsrnephdoc]

I forgot to mention that USA kilts is running a clearance on PV kilts in their Sterling Tartan line... a good place to start!

OC Richard's photo of 3 Serial Kilters is informative (I think). It suggests that the PV might tend to buckle more easily with movement rather than holding a gentle curve as a nice wool kilt will. The other limitation, of course, is that there are a huge number of tartans, but < 80 woven in PV by Marton Mills

[RockyR]

I forgot to mention that USA kilts is running a clearance on PV kilts in their Sterling Tartan line... a good place to start!

Thanks for mentioning our sale, Kitfoxdave! Here's a link to the products that are available in the sale tartans

https://www.usakilts.com/catalogsear...nt.+Tartans%29

[RockyR]

I'll chime in with my opinion on the OP's question:

I'd stick with Poly Viscose (true, PV cloth woven by Marton Mills in the UK) if you're looking for something in the lower end of the price scale and a cloth that's machine washable.

Alternatively, I'd get a lower yardage wool kilt (5 yards) in 13 or 16 oz cloth.