First kilt fabric choices?

**User** · 16th August 25, 09:17 PM

For your first kilt, if you're not sure how much you'll be wearing it and want something less expensive, sharp looking, cool for hot weather, and durable for festivals and work, I recommend getting a casual kilt in PV from USAKilts.

They're not quite traditional, but they're pretty close. I've looked at cheaper kilts, and in my opinion, paying the extra for a USAKilts casual kilt in PV is absolutely worth it.

If you wear it for a few months and decide you like it, then I'd drop the extra money for a traditional wool kilt.

A lot of people will recommend going straight for a traditional wool kilt. That's fine advice too. But personally, I've spent money on the good stuff only to realize it wasn't my thing too many times. So I prefer a more cautious approach to spending. And if you end up really liking kilts, having one PV and one wool is a good thing.

P.S. Some people swear that wool kilts are good for hot weather if you get a low yardage kilt. I cannot comment on that yet.

**geomick** · 16th August 25, 10:08 PM

Originally Posted by User

For your first kilt, if you're not sure how much you'll be wearing it and want something less expensive, sharp looking, cool for hot weather, and durable for festivals and work, I recommend getting a casual kilt in PV from USAKilts.

They're not quite traditional, but they're pretty close. I've looked at cheaper kilts, and in my opinion, paying the extra for a USAKilts casual kilt in PV is absolutely worth it.

If you wear it for a few months and decide you like it, then I'd drop the extra money for a traditional wool kilt.

A lot of people will recommend going straight for a traditional wool kilt. That's fine advice too. But personally, I've spent money on the good stuff only to realize it wasn't my thing too many times. So I prefer a more cautious approach to spending. And if you end up really liking kilts, having one PV and one wool is a good thing.

P.S. Some people swear that wool kilts are good for hot weather if you get a low yardage kilt. I cannot comment on that yet.

I would argue in favor of the next step up from USA Kilt, the semi-tradtional PV kilt. I'm not a big velcro fan, so I would rather have the straps of the semi-trad.

**OC Richard** · 17th August 25, 09:28 AM

I'll add to Steve's litany of how kilts can go wrong with this comparison.

On top is a hand-stitched kilt in wool kilting fabric from a UK mill.

At bottom is a kilt sold by a disreputable firm who claims their kilts are Scottish-made, and their low price is due to them being ex-hire.

They're neither. They're new Pakistani-made kilts, crudely machine-stitched out of nasty acrylic.

It's striking to see the differences side-by-side.

(It's strange how the Pakistani kilt has fabric belt loops AND a leather tab.)

**jsrnephdoc** · 17th August 25, 11:01 AM

Originally Posted by Steve Ashton;1412282To my knowledge there is only one mill weaving true P/V and that is Marton Mills in Otley, England. The fabric they sell is a blend of 60% Polyester and 40% Rayon. If a kilt maker is advertising that their product is made from P/V ask which mill wove the fabric. If they do not say Marton Mills, pass them by.

There are very few makers using Marton Mills P/V. USA Kilts is perhaps the best known and most respected. I would give their Casual model, their Semi-Trad model, their 5 yard model, or their Box Pleated model a good look.

While it is true that nothing looks, hangs, or swishes, like a full Hand-stitched wool kilt made by a custom kiltmaker, it is how the kilt is made, far more than the fabric it is made from, that makes the difference in the lok, and your enjoyment of, your kilt. Here is an example of a 16oz wool kilt flanked by two true P/V kilts.

[IMG

https://i.postimg.cc/gcx71jyC/Licensed-To-Kilt.jpg[/IMG]

WOW! GREAT post!

I have two (oops, make that THREE—or maybe even FOUR) questions as a result:

The photo above suggests that the PV will "buckle" a bit more easily when the wool would probably "sway," is that a fair inference?
Is there ANY chance you and Barb Tewksbury will resurrect your "how to make a kilt" seminars? My sister and I live thousands of miles apart, but we truly enjoy long visits (including 2 weeks in Scotland summer of 2023), and Barb has made ONE kilt for me. As a consequence, she suffers through possibly too many emails from me as I try to decide what to have made next. I'm pretty certain you'd have 2, or maybe even 3, including my own spouse, attending one of those courses if you ever did it again.
Why is it that your SO important photo shows up in MY response solely as a URL link?
What's the provenance of those "shoulder pads" and breast pocket affixed to the sweater of the guy on the left?

And, I LOVED the photo's caption when I resolved the link in my own browser. My license plate says KILTER. My wife often intimates she'll refuse to ride in my car for fear of people (especially now that we live in "Sin City"—where one of the favored attractions is "The Mob Museum"—actually mistaking my purpose in life

**User** · 17th August 25, 12:39 PM

Originally Posted by jsrnephdoc

...
Why is it that your SO important photo shows up in MY response solely as a URL link?
...

[IMG
https://i.postimg.cc/gcx71jyC/Licensed-To-Kilt.jpg[/IMG]

You chopped up the link and added bad formatting to it.
1. Remove the bold effect from [IMG
2. Put back in the closing square brace for the opening IMG tag [IMG]
3. If there's a newline after the opening IMG tag, remove that.
Now it will work. You can use the preview button to make sure you've formatted it correctly before posting.

**OC Richard** · 18th August 25, 02:43 PM

Originally Posted by jsrnephdoc

What's the provenance of those "shoulder pads" and breast pocket affixed to the sweater of the guy on the left?

That jumper appears to be based on the jumpers used in the British army.

Here's a soldier wearing one.

They have reinforced shoulders and elbows as you can see. There are slots at the shoulder seams for your epaulette to go through. Officers' ranks are displayed on their epaulettes, and sometimes Sergeants' ranks too, though here you see the Pipe Major's stripes etc sewn onto the jumper.

BTW in the UK they're called "jumpers". I think "sweater" is confined to North America.

About the pocket, I don't think I've seen a military jumper with that.

**jsrnephdoc** · 18th August 25, 03:21 PM

Originally Posted by OC Richard

That jumper appears to be based on the jumpers used in the British army.

Here's a soldier wearing one.

About the pocket, I don't think I've seen a military jumper with that.

But now I'm curious about the purple bow on the piper's kilt. I've seen those on individuals in pipe bands before and have no understanding of their significance.

And, by the way, I didn't know that the BBC livestreamed the World Piping Championships. I've been watching YouTube videos of the championships while riding my exercise bike. That Inveraray group are REALLY amazing.

This thread made me wonder whether I might save some money by purchasing a PV kilt or two in USA Kilts (Marton Mills-provided) "semi-traditional" construction, until I learned that Marton Mills provides a relatively small spectrum of tartans in that fabric. And, as I mentioned, to me your photo of the 3 kilters, one in PV, suggests that the fabric is a bit TOO flexible to sway in the same fashion as a good heavyweight wool does. Am I inferring that correctly?

Lastly, I'm now thinking of a "Piping Frenzy" Scotland vacation next August—Edinburgh for the Tattoo, Glasgow for the worlds, and (maybe) Perth for the UK championships (my initial searching informed me that the UK championships were canceled this year). Do the "heavy hitter" large regimental bands participate in either of those competitions?

If intentions become reality, do you have any suggestions regarding places to visit related to Scottish attire? We loved our stop at Lochcarron in 2023, but I don't believe any of the other major mills offer tours. And, at our last visit, Glasgow was encumbered by the World Cycling Championships, limiting our explorations. Are there places to visit there for someone from the US interested in tartan?

**User** · 18th August 25, 03:57 PM

Originally Posted by jsrnephdoc

But now I'm curious about the purple bow on the piper's kilt. I've seen those on individuals in pipe bands before and have no understanding of their significance.
...

I remember reading a discussion about kilt ribbons, bows, and rosettes here: https://www.xmarksthescot.com/forum/...uestion-88961/

**Steve Ashton** · 18th August 25, 06:37 PM

The "Woolly Pully" sweater/jumper in the photo is a civilian version of the issue sweater/jumper of the Canadian military forces.
The guy wearing it was a tanker in the Canadian Forces with service in Afganistan.

**OC Richard** · Yesterday, 03:29 AM

Originally Posted by jsrnephdoc

But now I'm curious about the purple bow on the piper's kilt.

Yes they look purplish there, but they're the same tartan as the kilt.

Those specific bows are unique to The Black Watch. They're worn by Sergeants and above.

The Black Watch wears, not surprisingly, the Black Watch tartan, and Sergeants and Officers wear grass green bows (left).

But! Black Watch pipers don't wear the Black Watch tartan, they wear the Royal Stewart tartan.

So in the Black Watch the Pipe Sergeant and Pipe Major wear Royal Stewart bows (right).

But wait! There's more! Because nothing in the military is simple.

The pipers of The Scots Guards also wear Royal Stewart kilts, but with Royal Stewart rosettes.

(You can see the holes where the kilt pin goes.)

And if you think that's overdoing things, wait to you see the complicated setup on the Sergeants and Officers kilts of the Argyll & Sutherland Highlanders.

There's an embroidered sort of cartouche-thing with three complicated embroidered star-things, over the top of that there are two things which are bows on top of rosettes.

And two wee bow-rosette things attached to one of the pleats in the back of the kilt.

Here's a kilt with the front bow/rosettes removed so you can see the embroidery pattern.