Happy St. Patrick's Day

**bikercelt1** · 22nd March 05, 04:10 PM

While I don't consider myself an expert on such matters, I have recently visited Northern Ireland and learned a bit about the sectarian violence there. Those who consider themselves "Irish" or "Republicans" would be found celebrating St. Patricks day. Those who consider themselves "British" or "Loyalist" would be found celebrating the Battle of the Boyne. The Orange Order would be the most adamant of the Loyalist side. In some places to wear orange on St. Patricks day would indeed be an affront something on the order of wearing Nazi paraphenalia outside a Jewish synagoge or a Ku Klux Klan robe at a NAACP rally. Most of us Americans may not fully comprehend the importance of such symbols but that doesn't make them any less valid or important to the people more closely involved than we are.

Jamie

**Matthews** · 22nd March 05, 04:47 PM

Those who consider themselves "Irish" or "Republicans" would be found celebrating St. Patricks day. Those who consider themselves "British" or "Loyalist" would be found celebrating the Battle of the Boyne. The Orange Order would be the most adamant of the Loyalist side.

I have a friend of the family who is a 100 year old protestant lady from Belfast and if you were to tell her that she wasn't Irish because she was a loyalist she would have your head. And to say that Irish protestants aren't Irish and therefore should not celebrate St. Patrick's Day is not quite the idea. Although Protestant Extremists might dismiss St. Patty's Day but for the same reasons that Catholic Extremists would claim it for themselves. And for the Republicans to claim St. Patrick's Day for themselves is in a way, kind of an oxymoron. For Republican Extremists claim close ties to their Celtic Heritage, when it was Patrick himself that was the great purger of everything Celt - especially their religion but also many of their customs.

In some places to wear orange on St. Patricks day would indeed be an affront something on the order of wearing Nazi paraphenalia outside a Jewish synagoge or a Ku Klux Klan robe at a NAACP rally.

Just wearing some orange with your green...nah. Wearing a suit, orange scarf and a black derby, yes.
And yes, if you were to go to the wrong neighbourhood wearing an orange unitard waving around the Union Jack.

Cheers,
T.R. Matthews

**bikercelt1** · 22nd March 05, 05:08 PM

Originally Posted by Matthews

I have a friend of the family who is a 100 year old protestant lady from Belfast and if you were to tell her that she wasn't Irish because she was a loyalist she would have your head. And to say that Irish protestants aren't Irish and therefore should not celebrate St. Patrick's Day is not quite the idea.

In some places to wear orange on St. Patricks day would indeed be an affront something on the order of wearing Nazi paraphenalia outside a Jewish synagoge or a Ku Klux Klan robe at a NAACP rally.

Just wearing some orange with your green...nah. Wearing a suit, orange scarf and a black derby, yes.
And yes, if you were to go to the wrong neighbourhood wearing an orange unitard waving around the Union Jack.

Cheers,
T.R. Matthews

It's not a matter of what I call a person, it's what they identify themselves as. The majority of the people in Northern Ireland, as in many other cultures, are the victims of the extremists. As I said, I'm not an authority on the issue by any means, and I certainly don't mean to be perpetuating any biases. I'm merely sharing some insights and information that I learned from residents of Belfast concerning the traditions surrounding St. Patrick's Day and the observance of The Battle of the Boyne. Certainly things are a matter of degree, orange trim would be a very different thing than wearing an orange jumpsuit, or as you said an orange scarf black derby. The point I would make is that we Americans might well unintentionally offend people in a tense, sensitive political situation through our ignorance of their symbols. We shouldn't just "pooh-pooh" these symbols and say they don't matter.

Jamie