Clan 'God'

[Doc Hudson]

For the record, any misunderstanding between Philebeg and I has been cleared up via PM.

And let me state plainly that I don't advocate assassination, execution or outlawing of anyone due to sexual preference.

As for the Clergy Tartan, I'd say you'd be a little presumptious to wear it if not an ordained minister. Even so, I would NOT give you any flack for wearing it if that is what your heart is set upon.

(My aoplogies for the failure to properly proof read this post and leaving out a most important "not")

[Mike1]

As for the Clergy Tartan, I'd say you'd be a little presumptious to wear it if not an ordained minister. Even so, I would give you any flack for wearing it if that is what your heart is set upon.

Well, maybe a ~little~ presumptuous , but really no more so than an individual wearing any family's tartan, without the lineage to "entitle" it.

In this country, there are laws to prohibit dressing as a police officer. There are no laws to prevent one from dressing as a Sinclair, or a Gunn, or a MacFarlane, etc. And the Clergy tartan is just as available as any other, including those I named. I was never asked to prove my eligibility to wear the Clergy tartan.

As I said before, if anyone wears a tartan, then they need to wear it well, so that they do not bring shame or dishonor upon the family, association, group or regiment that tartan repesents.

Todd, I had never considered a stole made from the Clergy tartan, but I am now. Thanks for a splendid idea!

[Thistle Stop]

Let us hope that no one comes armed, as Dreadlock-Ness Monster mentioned in his post!

I disagree with both you and Dreadlock-Ness Monster.

I'm more in agreement with Robert Heinlein's assessment that "An armed society is a polite society."

Since time immemorial, freemen and gentry have born arms. Bearing arms was the sign of a Free man rather than a bond servant. In days when people were expected to accept responsibility for their actions and for their crimes, there were fewer instances where men resorted to arms in the heat of an arguement. After all he KNEW that if he drew a weapon, his enemy and the friends of his enemy would do the same. Hence, an intelligent person would think before he used fighting words, or reached for his weapon.

Today, where it is not common for people to be armed, many people routinely use words and terms that in the 18th or 19th Century would have resulted in an invitation to join some one for pistols for two and breakfast for one.

Lambeth will be loud, and most entertaining for non-Anglicans, but don't expect bloodshed or fisticuffs.

BTW, if excecutions or assinations could cure or end homosexuality, it would have been stamped out thousands of years ago.

I was just kidding about the guns!

[Thistle Stop]

Listen, folks, this is really too much.

You all know that this is not the place to air your negative views on homosexuality, yet time and time again people go right on ahead (and sorry, saying, "oh, I guess I better stop before someone might get pissed off" after you have spewed hate all over the forum is a flimsy cover-up). I find it childish and extremely egotistical.

Please start a CHRISTIAN VALUES KILT FORUM of your own, I am all for it. There you could post whatever you like about anyone who differs from you in any way.

HERE WE TALK ABOUT KILTS WITHOUT INSULTING ONE ANOTHER OR IMPLYING VIOLENCE TOWARDS ANY GROUP>>>IF I AM WRONG IN THIS I ASK THE MODERATORS TO LET ME KNOW< SO I CAN LEAVE THE FORUM AND START ONE OF MY OWN:

The Tolerant, Mature and Polite Kilt-Wearers Forum.

Anybody else wanna join?

It's my fault it got off-topic, because I commented that it was ironic that the American Episcopal church, founded by ministers ordained by Scots because the English wouldn't ordain them, is losing a lot of members who are choosing to identify themselves as Anglican now (i.e., Church of England). The divisive issue in the church is the ordination of a gay bishop, but that wasn't the point of what I was saying. I certainly did not intend to open a can of worms or encourage anyone to make defamatory remarks, which I abhor. I agree that hatred is unchristian. The comment I made was really just an aside, in response to the interesting fact of the Scottish bishops helping to establish the American church. I'm sorry I inadvertently dragged the discussion off-topic. Please forgive me.

[Dreadbelly]

And I will take this moment to apologize for my insinuation of shooting pedophiles.

Not sure how somebody took offense to that, but I will apologize and eat crow none the less. I am sorry, and in the future, I will try to be more sensetive to the issues.

On topic, I like the green clergy tartan. It's pleasant. Almost... Pastoral, and I don't mean that in a churchy sense... But I could. Strikes me as a simple shepherds type of tartan. Plain.

[philibeg]

Well, I once saw a kilt in Clark tartan at a ceili and I think it was the most beautiful kilt I have ever seen. Very solemn, but rich in color and interesting to the eye. Oh for limitless funds for buying kilts!!

PS Yes we are all friends again, which is nice

[M. A. C. Newsome]

Well, there are other tartans out there that you might choose to wear that you can assign some religious signifigance to, without implying that you are clergy.

Get creative. There is the MacIntyre tartan (MacIntyre means "son of the carpenter.") There is the Shepherd tartan (you can tell people that your chief is the Good Shepherd). But the problem with this approach is that while these tartans may have spiritual signifigance to you, other people will see them and just assume that you are a MacIntyre or a Shepherd.

The Clergy tartan has obvious religious signifigance, yes. But the problem stands that it implies that you are a clergyman. Sounds like what you are looking for is something that implys you are a Christian. Some have likened wearing a tartan to wearing a Notre Dame sweatshirt. People see you wearing it and assume you have some connection to Notre Dame. But the Clergy tartan is more specific. It doesn't just denote allegiance to a clan or place. It denotes an occupation -- an occupation that most people hold in very high regard. So it wouldn't be quite like wearing a Notre Dame sweatshirt (I'm a fan of Notre Dame), as it would be like wearing a name tag that said "I'm on the Notre Dame faculty."

The fact is that there is no "Christian" tartan. No tartan that simply says, "I'm a man of faith." (Think about it -- in the past, it likely was not an issue. When 99% of the population in your area was Christian, why would anyone need a special tartan to point that out? We obviously live in different times now). So one option woudl be for you to design one. Obviously, given the intent of the tartan, this would have to be done with great taste.

Understand this could not be an official tartan -- it would only be a fashion tartan. You'd never get the approval of the clan cheif! It would likely be recorded as "a tartan woven for X to denote his Christian faith."

Why not begin with the Clergy tartan, and alter it slightly. Keep it similar enough that people would still be able to recongize the Clergy tartan in it, but different enough that people would notice the difference.

If you want to go that route, I'd be happy to work up some designs for you. Just PM me.

Thanks!
Matt

[Doc Hudson]

[quote="Mike1"]

Well, maybe a ~little~ presumptuous , but really no more so than an individual wearing any family's tartan, without the lineage to "entitle" it.

Please note that I said "a little presumptuous" not wrong. And after proper editing, I admited that I'd not give the young man any grief over the wearing of Clergy Tartan.

Some days I thank God there are no sumptuary laws in this country, and other days I wish there were and that they were strictly enforced.

[macwilkin]

There are two tartans that honour Saints Columba & Patrick, which would certainly be appropriate tartans for someone wishing to display their faith without implying that one is clergy. Both men were instrumental in bringing Christianity to Scotland & Ireland, so what a fitting tribute!

http://www.celtictartans.com/our_own_tartans.htm

Scroll down to the bottom of the page, & you will see the St. Columba tartan -- it is very striking indeed.

I'm only sorry I didn't think of them before! :mrgreen:

Yours Aye,

Todd

[Mike1]

Please note that I said "a little presumptuous" not wrong.

I was winding you up a bit! It was time to bring a bit of humor back into the mix.

S&F,
Mike