To pleat to the sett or pleat to the stripe, that is the question

[Monkey@Arms]

Good day Gents,

Since I rediscovered its existence about a year ago, I've been wanting a kilt made from the Polaris Military tartan.

Why I didn't find Alexis Malcolm during my original search remains a mystery. Now I have in my hot little hand an actual swatch of the Polaris so all that needs done is to send in my measurements and a pocket full o' bucks and to choose whether to pleat to the sett or to the stripe. This is where you all come in.

WSK,

I too would love to get a Polaris kilt someday. I understand that since the tartan is no longer in general manufacture, one has to pay a premium for a special run of the material. If I may ask, how much is this kilt going to set you back?

Best regards,

Jake

[Barb T]

...pleated to the stripe. The reason...it's easier.

To be honest, I think pleating to the stripe is actually harder. Yes, it's easier to lay out the kilt and figure out where to put the pleats, but it is harder to make the pleats look good. The main stripe has to be absolutely centered from bottom to top, and each pleat has to be perfectly tapered from bottom to top. Unless you've made a lot of kilts or have a _lot_ of patience, it's hard to do this perfectly. I still prefer pleating the the sett and can make a kilt faster if it's pleated to the sett, and I've made zillions of kilts.

On the question of why the tartan is not square: it ought to be because tartan is what weavers call a "45" weave - the twill line should be at exactly a 45 degree angle. Some handweavers adjust the threat count to make squares absolutely square when the tension is off the warp. In commercially-woven tartan, squares are never square, in my experience, and the warp-parallel dimension of the sett is longer than the weft-parallel dimension. So, if you're figuring out the sett, measure parallel to the warp (the long dimension of the tartan).

And a sett is the full repeat of the tartan, where you can start over again and get exactly the same pattern of stripes. A tartan can repeat A-B-A-B (like the Wallace or Rob Roy) or A-B-A-C-A-B-A-C like the Black Watch or even A-B-C-D-A-B-C-D (an asymmetric tartan like the Ancient Campbell of Argyll). The full sett for an A-B-A-B tartan is A-B; for the Black Watch, it would be A-B-A-C. You could pleat to the stripe every half sett if you pleated to the "A" block or to every full sett if you pleated to the B or C blocks. That's what chasem is talking about with the Forbes.

Barb

[M. A. C. Newsome]

Sorry I am late coming to this thread, but my advice would be to pleat to the stripe, and here is why:

This tartan is a military tartan. Traditionally, military kilts were pleated to stripe. Not that a military tartan cannot be pleated to sett if it is a civilian kilt (not part of the uniform), but pleating to stripe would be a nod towards the tartan's military heritage.

Specifically, I'd pleat to the light blue/yellow stripes on the green, both because that is the obvious stripe, and also becuase tartans based on the Black Watch sett (which this one is) are typically pleated to whatever stripe is on the green portion of the sett, enabling you to work more easily with the large sett created by such tartans (as has already been discussed).

And lastly, I just think it would look sharp pleated to the line.

Of course, it is your kilt, and the best advice is to get it pleated however you want!

M

[mbhandy]

And lastly, I just think it would look sharp pleated to the line.

Of course, it is your kilt, and the best advice is to get it pleated however you want!M

I'm with Matt and it is the millitary style.

MrBill

[JimB]

I think this would look good pleated to either the sett or the stripe.
My personal preference would be to pleat it to the stripe, but it can give a loot that can be surprising based on what colors surround the stripe. Looking at this, I think you will have a very yellow look to the back of your kilt but I would be ok with that. I would just do some folding and pinning and see if you're happy with it.
I think doing it to the stripe is easier in concept because the lines are right there, you don't have to figure much out. Just line everything up and there you go...but Barb is right..execution is everything. When you do it to the stripe, being a little off shows up right away.
Whether you use each sett or every other sett to do your pleats depends on how far apart the setts are and how deep the pleats would be on each or every other sett. If they are too close you will end up with shallow pleats. I prefer ending up with about a 3 inch depth. Again, try it by folding and pinning and see what you get.
It's a beutiful tartan. Good luck with it

[turpin]

Nope, the pleats will be done in the same manner, so the kilt will wear just as well either way.

Slight difference - pleating to the stripe on a black watch based set or similar dimension you can get a lot more pleats but they will be shallower. A Gordon Modern pleated to the set for my measurements has pleats about 4.5" deep with about a 1" reveal, and a pleat number in the mid-20's. Pleated to the stripe gives me 35 pleats about 2.75"deep with a 3/4" reveal. I love the swing on it, and the look of the stripe pleat. You get the sett in the apron and a different look in the pleats.

[wsk]

Wow, just when I think that the thread had died from disinterest ...

Thanks to All.

The Polaris tartan is next on my list. ...

Yeah, me too. Tomorrow in Property tax day here. Once again the city is helping itself to my wallet. Sigh, no new kilt this month...

how much is this kilt going to set you back?

Prices are on her web site but I think the final damage to my wallet after the smoke clears will be about $560.

[wsk]

On the question of why the tartan is not square...

Tidbits for the second edition ...

So, answer me this: If I have a swatch in my hand and pull gently along the warp or weft (I don't know which because it's only a swatch), can I deduce by how the fabric stretches which is warp and which is weft?

The Polaris swatch I have is more stretchy in one direction than it is in the other.

And a sett is the full repeat of the tartan, where you can start over again and get exactly the same pattern of stripes. ...

Just read that in your book. All straight now, thanks.

[wsk]

Sorry I am late coming to this thread...

No, no. Don't appogoze to me, I'm honored to have your opinion regardless of when I get it. Thank you.

[Barb T]

So, answer me this: If I have a swatch in my hand and pull gently along the warp or weft (I don't know which because it's only a swatch), can I deduce by how the fabric stretches which is warp and which is weft?

Yes - woven fabric is very slightly stretchy parallel to the weft and less stretchy parallel to the warp (the long dimension of the yardage). That's because the warp is under tension when the fabric is woven and the weft is not. The weft climbs over and under the warp threads, which are in tension, and, once the fabric is woven, it's possible to pull those little up and down excursions out straight, giving the weft direction a little stretch. That's why pattern pieces for garments have the "straight grain" of the fabric along the length. You don't care if your pants stretch a little around, but you don't want them bagging and sagging along the length.

Barb