New DVD - The Braemar Gathering

[McClef]

Ahh, gotcha now. Thanks. He's the one with the big ears, right?



I seem to remember the opening of the Scottish Parliament the TV commentator said Charles' official title in Scotland was Duke of Rothesay as PoW was an english title, was that wrong?

The title Prince of Wales predates the union of the crowns and also the Act of Union. Before these events its clearly had no standing in Scotland and could have well been thought of as an "English" title as it was given to the eldest son of the King (or Queen but never happened as Tudor queens never had children) of England. Since the union of the crowns, however, the highest title in terms of rank has priority even in Scotland although there is nothing to prevent Charles choosing to use a lower rank title in Scotland if he so wishes. Camilla is de facto Princess of Wales but she chooses not to use the title. I haven't heard that she uses Duchess of Rothesay in Scotland rather than Duchess of Cornwall though.

There are other problems too - the Queen is Elizabeth II in Scotland although there never was a Scottish Elizabeth I.

Wikipedia covers this by saying:

"However, in Scotland, the title Elizabeth II caused some controversy, as there has never been an Elizabeth I in Scotland. In a rare act of sabotage, new Royal Mail post boxes in bearing the initials "E II R" in Scotland were vandalised. (Prior to Queen Elizabeth, Scottish boxes had borne the monarch's initials, but no crown.) To avoid further problems, post boxes and Royal Mail vehicles in Scotland now bear only the Crown of Scotland and no Royal cypher.

A legal case, MacCormick v. Lord Advocate (1953 SC 396), was taken to contest the right of the Queen to style herself Elizabeth II within Scotland, arguing that to do so would be a breach of the Act of Union. The case was lost on the grounds that the pursuers had no title to sue the Crown, and also that the numbering of monarchs was part of the royal prerogative, and not governed by the Act of Union.

There are also two other matters of controversy, publicised much less. First, the argument that the monarch was addressed as Your Grace, rather than Majesty, in pre-Union Scotland, and, second, that the preferred title had been King/Queen of Scots rather than of Scotland (although the latter was by no means unknown).

At the royal opening of the Scottish Parliament in 1999, the presiding officer David Steel referred to her as, "not only the Queen of the United Kingdom but seated as you are among us in the historic and constitutionally correct manner as Queen of Scots".

Future British monarchs will be numbered according to either English or Scottish predecessors, whichever number is higher. Applying this policy retroactively to monarchs since the Act of Union yields the same numbering."

A fascinating table of how it will all work in future can be seen at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...itish_monarchs

You forgot one: Royal Colonel (in-chief) of the Black Watch (now 3rd Battalion, Royal Regiment of Scotland.

Cheers,

Todd

Well that's not an official title, that is do with one of his very many honorary positions.

[macwilkin]

Well that's not an official title, that is do with one of his very many honorary positions.

Sorry, but I disagree -- it is an "official" title, since HM The Queen appoints various members of the royal family to serve as colonels-in-chief to various regiments. Charles has always been very proud of his associations with the Highland Regiments.

T.

[McClef]

Yes she does but they do not automatically go with a particular position within the royal family.

According to wikipedia his full list of titles are:

"In full (rarely used): His Royal Highness The Prince Charles Philip Arthur George, Prince of Wales, Duke of Cornwall and Earl of Chester, Duke of Rothesay, Earl of Carrick, Baron of Renfrew, Lord of the Isles, Prince and Great Steward of Scotland, Knight Companion of the Most Noble Order of the Garter, Knight of the Most Ancient and Most Noble Order of the Thistle, Great Master and First and Principal Knight Grand Cross of the Most Honourable Order of the Bath, Member of the Order of Merit, Knight of the Order of Australia, Companion of the Queen's Service Order, Honorary Member of the Saskatchewan Order of Merit, Chief Grand Commander of the Order of Logohu, Member of Her Majesty's Most Honourable Privy Council, Aide-de-Camp to Her Majesty."

The Black Watch position appears along will all his other honorary military positions in

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...rince_of_Wales

[macwilkin]

Yes she does but they do not automatically go with a particular position within the royal family.

According to wikipedia his full list of titles are:

"In full (rarely used): His Royal Highness The Prince Charles Philip Arthur George, Prince of Wales, Duke of Cornwall and Earl of Chester, Duke of Rothesay, Earl of Carrick, Baron of Renfrew, Lord of the Isles, Prince and Great Steward of Scotland, Knight Companion of the Most Noble Order of the Garter, Knight of the Most Ancient and Most Noble Order of the Thistle, Great Master and First and Principal Knight Grand Cross of the Most Honourable Order of the Bath, Member of the Order of Merit, Knight of the Order of Australia, Companion of the Queen's Service Order, Honorary Member of the Saskatchewan Order of Merit, Chief Grand Commander of the Order of Logohu, Member of Her Majesty's Most Honourable Privy Council, Aide-de-Camp to Her Majesty."

The Black Watch position appears along will all his other honorary military positions in

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...rince_of_Wales

Our disagreement is in the definition of "official" and "honourary" then.

An appoint by HM the Queen is "official" in my book, regardless of whether it is an "official" title -- and HRH takes it very seriously.

T.

[McClef]

Our disagreement is in the definition of "official" and "honourary" then.

An appoint by HM the Queen is "official" in my book, regardless of whether it is an "official" title -- and HRH takes it very seriously.

T.

Yes I can see where you are coming from.

There are official titles which go with his position as heir to the throne and then there are appointments which do not, these usually depend on other factors such as vacancies.

Charles could resign any of his honorary appointments such as the Black Watch one without it affecting any of his "official" titles. Those titles would only be affected by his accession to the throne and be devolved to Prince William. As king he could still retain all his honorary positions however.

Another example would be the Princess Royal. This title is awarded to the eldest daughter of a monarch but has nothing to do with honorary appointments.

Princess Anne, the Princess Royal, is a Royal Colonel, Royal Scots Borderers

The previous Princess Royal, Princess Mary, was Colonel-in-chief of The Royal Scots (the Royal Regiment).

I know it can get very complicated about how the royal ranking system works

[starbkjrus]

I have seen this DVD and it is very good, and I also highly recomend it. It is not regionaly encoded i.e., is R0. Better than that, it is a double sided DVD and the other side is NTSC recorded, i.e., compatable with US players. I have just called tham to make an order and they confirm the technical details.

Jim

What a shame that this isn't available to those of us in the US. One of my favorite things every year is waiting for the Edinburgh Tattoo DVD to arrive in my mailbox. This would of been a great addition to that collection.

Splash, see the quote above from Jim.

Ham, thank you for reminding me of that one. I meant to order it along with the Tattoo DVD and completely forgot. (The Edinburgh Tattoo DVD can be had HERE .)

Merry Christmas to ME!