Nice Balmorals

[macwilkin]

All rights, gents, we're getting close to the line of no return here. Consider this your warning shot accross the bow.

Cheers,

Todd

[Bob C]

All rights, gents, we're getting close to the line of no return here. Consider this your warning shot accross the bow.

Cheers,

Todd

Consider me warned!

[McClef]

I hope I am not contravening the shot across the bows but there is a clear difference between a military hackle (as in Black Watch) and a civilian type so that one should not be confused with the other.

This is a photo of the Black Watch hackle:



and this is one of the possible "civilian" ones:



The visual difference should not lead to a Black Watch jock taking umbrage.

IMHO at least.

[Nanook]

I hope I am not contravening the shot across the bows but there is a clear difference between a military hackle (as in Black Watch) and a civilian type so that one should not be confused with the other.

Yankee Doodle went to town,
A-Riding on a pony;
He stuck a feather in his hat,
And called it macaroni

Yankee doodle keep it up,
Yankee Doodle dandy;
Mind the music and the step,
And with the girls be handy!

The Yankee simpleton in the song thinks that putting a feather in his
hat makes him a fashionable dandy....

A feather in ones cap is an honour, trophy, or mark of distinction.

What distinguishes the military feathers from their civilian versions in your picture? Quality, maker and ancestry. The "civilian" hackles you showed were probably made in Asia while the "Black Watch" Red Hackles are made in Britain to high standards.

Today feathers no longer have the semantics they once had. Like many things they have become fashion. In Germany (especially in Hamburg) in the 1930s and into the 1940s to wear crepe soled shoes was a political statement against the establishment. Today in Germany crepe soles means nothing. If you were not a farmer to wear "Levi" jeans in the 1950s and into the 1960s was a political statement. Today its as political as to drink a Coke. The kilt was once political. Today? Go into any department store and have a look at what they are selling for children's clothing? Loads of camouflage patterns. Children soldiers, civil war? Hardly. Some clothing, on the other hand, is today "political" that was mundane just a few years ago. Headscarves, for instance, are banned in French schools. In American schools there are "gang colours". The Netherlands is moving to a total ban for burqas ("Muslim veils") in public. etc. etc. etc.

[McClef]

What distinguishes the military feathers from their civilian versions in your picture? Quality, maker and ancestry. The "civilian" hackles you showed were probably made in Asia while the "Black Watch" Red Hackles are made in Britain to high standards.

The MOD placed its most recent kilt order with Asia, no doubt hopefully expecting high standards, but these days buying British is no longer automatic, the Goverment is affected by the global market too.

I found a site offering the Black Watch hackle for £0.78 http://www.blackwatchshop.co.uk/prod...products_id=29 which is a quarter of what you can expect to pay for a "civilian" hackle. I don't know if the "Black Watch Shop" has any actual official connection with the regiment or not (probably not) but it is claiming to be the real McCoy and this product has been on the catalogue since July 2004. If the regiment wished to object one would think they would have done so by now.

The history of Yankee Doodle is an interesting one http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yankee_Doodle

One of my new kilts has just arrived!

[Nanook]

The MOD placed its most recent kilt order with Asia, no doubt hopefully expecting high standards,

They did not place their order. The issue was one of should the MOD accept tenders from Asia.

http://news.scotsman.com/index.cfm?id=278112006

THE British Army has lowered the standards required of ceremonial kilts for the new amalgamated Scots regiment so that they may be manufactured from cheap tartan made abroad, a move critics say could lead to poorly made outfits.
.
.
.
An MoD spokesman insisted that the changes have been made in order to provide best value for the UK taxpayer and added that the new worsted fabric would be less "fluffy" in appearance.

The MoD contract will be directly between the kilt manufacturer and the MoD.

It is up to the producers of the garment to source the material at the cheapest possible price, making it more likely that it will come from abroad.

The talk was even to let Asian companies join but that got shelved so now its British kiltmakers under the squeeze but also armed with lower (cheaper) standards to meet.

but these days buying British is no longer automatic, the Goverment is affected by the global market too.

No, it not called "Global market" but its called short-sighted quick savings. Its about balancing books, avoid taxes and getting re-elected.

In a story unrelated to kilts (but to the spirit) a story came over the wire today that the German government has tabled their plans to restrict smoking in public places due to (open and explicit!) concerns that people might smoke less and this would reduce the amount of monies derived from tobacco tax--- seriously folks that's their line (and why too they have been filibusting EU directives on advertising).

What's the value of a couple of blokes running about in archaic ceremonial garb or tattoo parades for tourists? In the future we'll see the boys trooping-the-colour in tartan polyester mini-skirts from textile discounter overstocks

I found a site offering the Black Watch hackle for £0.78 http://www.blackwatchshop.co.uk/prod...products_id=29 which is a quarter of what you can expect to pay for a "civilian" hackle.

That's a good deal. I don't know about their conditions but they normally fetch much much more (if they are real)-- and why I guess its their top selling item. The Black Watch shop is a fan shop associated with the Black Watch Regimental Museum--- which is directly related to the Black Watch Regiment Association. So if the Regiment Association is selling an item then I'd hardly imagine that it crossed the line to wear one!

[flairball]

Graham,
That is a nice Balmoral. I, too like the color. I find myself gravitating towards green, and have been thinking about buying a Balmoral. Perhaps we'll have the same hat one day. I also thought the maroon looked good too, but if I was to buy a maroon Balmoral I'd have to add a few matching items my woredrobe so the hat would not stand alone. In the mean time I will do with the sage colored, waxed cotton flat cap I bought at Barbour on monday. I like the sage color, and it feels indestructable, which is a good thing.

Anyway, nice choice. Enjoy.

[McClef]

They did not place their order. The issue was one of should the MOD accept tenders from Asia.

http://news.scotsman.com/index.cfm?id=278112006

The talk was even to let Asian companies join but that got shelved so now its British kiltmakers under the squeeze but also armed with lower (cheaper) standards to meet.

I stand corrected, I must have read a lot about reactions and inferences that is was definitely going to happen but it does look as if kiltmakers are being pressured to find cheap sources for the material to make their quotes competitive.

No, it not called "Global market" but its called short-sighted quick savings. Its about balancing books, avoid taxes and getting re-elected.

The "Global Market" is still part of this, I have been a victim of it because my company couldn't compete with India on labour costs. In this case there is a major possibility that tenderers (without any reference to past traditions and proven quality etc) will have to look outside Scotland and even the UK for the cloth.

What's the value of a couple of blokes running about in archaic ceremonial garb or tattoo parades for tourists? In the future we'll see the boys trooping-the-colour in tartan polyester mini-skirts from textile discounter overstocks

Clearly tongue in cheek But many great traditions have been sacrificed on the altar of "progress" and saving money to offset against tragic and appalling wastage on other expenditure. 4000 kilts is hardly one or two but the idea that they might not be 100% Scottish woven and manufactured is indeed something that many people find hard to swallow.

That's a good deal. I don't know about their conditions but they normally fetch much much more (if they are real)-- and why I guess its their top selling item. The Black Watch shop is a fan shop associated with the Black Watch Regimental Museum--- which is directly related to the Black Watch Regiment Association. So if the Regiment Association is selling an item then I'd hardly imagine that it crossed the line to wear one!

Well if it is indeed kosher then it shows little official or semi-official concern about who may wear it.

As a test I registered an account and there is no requirement to prove a connection with the regiment so not only may it not be crossing an emotional line but indeed be considered an indication of support. I can't believe the low price but it says "as worn" which may be susceptible to more than one interpretation. There are a lot of descriptions which are cleverly worded "designed in Scotland" doesn't guarantee it's not made in Pakistan, "Hand made in Scotland" doesn't guarantee the material was woven in Scotland etc. etc.