1115 A.d.

[Nick]

One thing I didn't think of when I posted on the curved swords is the possibility that he could have gone on crusade with a curved sword: the falchion and grosse messer. I believe both these weapons were in use in Europe at that time, and they were very popular, though they've never been shown in museums to the extent as the straight bladed European swords.

AckZel, have you thought of what kind of weapon you would have carried? You may not have had a sword, as I said before. Maybe a polearm, or a mace or flail, or an archer. You still may have had a sword, but not neccessarily.

You could also ask in the Research and Authenticity room and Interpretive Recreation room at www.armourarchive.org.

Cheers,
Nick

[Caradoc]

If he went with a sword, he probably wouldn't have replaced it with a Saracen sword, he would have cared for it same as hauberk and helm. Loss or damage is certainly possible, of course. He may not have had a sword at all.

Cheers,
Nick

Many of the regular foot soldiers would have had at most a short sword, more likely a spear and/or a bow. If not an actual knight, the sword might have been a falchion - a heavy cleaving weapon.

However... on coming back he very well might carry a Saracen sword - many soldiers I know have brought back souvenirs... AK-47s, knives, swords, et cetera.

[Caradoc]

I believe both these weapons were in use in Europe at that time, and they were very popular, though they've never been shown in museums to the extent as the straight bladed European swords.

(sigh)

Two minutes I spend answering the phone and Nick beats me to it...

[AllenJ]

Have you ever fought in the Holy Lands? No? 'Did not think so. Who are you to question my advice?

Someone who has done a lot of research.

[Mike1]

Have you ever fought in the Holy Lands? No? 'Did not think so. Who are you to question my advice?

Lighten up Robert. Go for a walk, get a refreshing beverage or take a few deep breaths. Do whatever it takes, but lighten up.

Everyone is entitled to hold differing views, so don't go about questioning others about it.

[Sir Robert]

OK guys look we here at this grate site on kilts know all most nothing about kilts prior to the time they were outlawed and EVERYTHING after that point is very likely to be BS.

What do we know about the "Average Crusader" 500 years before that? Zip! We know didly / squat. We can guess based on period art and writings. Me I take that as a starting point and add what I know about Soldiers. Some things just never change. I brought back stuff, so would they have. Trust me on this.

[Nick]

I think we can learn a great deal from what period writers were putting down. I'm just a medieval historian, but primary documentation is always a good place to work from in my book.

[gilmore]

From what little I know of the period, I would tend to agree with Sir Robert, with qualifications. Fighting men of the period would have started off with outfit and weaponry that would have been quite motley and not at all uniform by our 21st century standards, and it wold have become moreso over the years of a crusade, with necessity being the mother of the invention of non-normative northern European ways of dress, weaponry, tactics, artwork, etc.

They were later in time, but as I recall Henry II and especially Eleanor of Aquitaine brought back from the crusades dress and even moreso decorative arts that were influenced by what she and her artisans saw in Palestine. Middle eastern-inspired decor became something of a vogue in Angevin France and England until late in her life when it was often replaced by astrological motifs.

But for the knights and those of lower status, I doubt they would have brought back too many arts and souvenirs. Think of trying to drag something large, heavy and non-utilitarian hundreds of miles through sweltering climates, over rivers and mountains in foreign countries simply because you thought it would look good on your mantle when you got home. I would think they would be more likely to have preferred treasure that could have been easily transported and exchanged for other goods both on the way and when they got home, things such as jewels, gold, and silver. They would have perhaps brought slaves back, too. And fast Arabian horses and hunting dogs if they could afford to.

[AllenJ]

OK guys look we here at this grate site on kilts know all most nothing about kilts prior to the time they were outlawed and EVERYTHING after that point is very likely to be BS.

What do we know about the "Average Crusader" 500 years before that? Zip! We know didly / squat. We can guess based on period art and writings. Me I take that as a starting point and add what I know about Soldiers. Some things just never change. I brought back stuff, so would they have. Trust me on this.

There is substansial primary material from this time. There is also no reason to discount the period iconography and texts. As far as I have read, there seems to be no documentation of European soldiers using or returning with foreign weapons. I feel another reason for this is that the manner in which a dramatically curved blade (such as a scimitar) is used is markedly different than the manner in which a straight (or slightly curved) blade is used. A soldier is going to use what ever he feels he is most comfortable with and what he has been trained best to use. Modern soldiers returning with foreign guns and knives is not a good comparison because all guns work in the same basic manner. There is not a whole lot of difference in how to use an AK-47 over an M-16, or a German Luger vs a .44. This is not the case in edged weaponry. This is not to say that perhaps nobles didnt collect a few things to hang on the wall, but then again, they arent the ones lugging it back hundreds of miles, their servants are. But again, it all comes back to documentation. If you can find legitimate historical evidence that soldiers used and retained Arabic weapons during the Crusades I would love to see it. If you can't find documentation then a vague possibility is as good as you can do.

[bubba]

Allenj, documentation is unlikely to exist. Records of soldiers bits of loot have never been looked at officially, at least until recent times.