The OUTRAGEOUS Price of kilts!

[McMurdo]

Bravo Alan, you have summed up what I have been thinking in a way I could not. I for do not mind paying for quality, granted I spent quite a bit on my Isle of Skye, in my mind though the important question is would I pay it again, and for the quality of the kilt, I would gladly pay that price again, no question.

[Phil]

I couldn't agree more. The cheap kilts Alan talks about have their place when you might be going to a football/rugby game with a few drinks afterwards but there is no comparison with a hand-made worsted tartan kilt that will last a lifetime and be handed on to future generations (hopefully). I bought a metre of tartan recently and it cost £41 (about $80) to make up a waistcoat. I don't know what the retail markup was but I have always believed you only get what you pay for. If it seems too good to be true then it usually is. Handmade kilts are becoming a rarity now which is a shame but if nobody will pay for these skills then they will be lost forever.

[Robin]

Thank you Alan!

[Nerts]

Thank you Alan!

I second this!!!

E.

[LoftGuy]

Alan,

This Wizzard, lin attached, is widely used in the custom furniture/cabinetry and pattern making trades to determine realistic costs and pricing. Don't see why it couldn't be useful to a kilt maker, as well.

http://www.bridgewooddesign.com/estimator/index.htm

HTH,

Bob

[davedove]

I always understood why kilts were priced so high compared to the mass produced clothing out there. My question, given the cost of the material, is how can the kiltmakers charge so little?

[A Hay]

I think Alan is very gifted in his ability to analyze and work with numbers. As an Engineer, it is something I can relate to.

He got me to thinking about the sporrans I have made. It is a hobby for me right now, so I'm not looking to make a lot of money. I do it for fun. And I'm not trying to drum up business. As a matter of fact I'm taking the summer off.

However, I thought there might be some other DYI's out there who might be interested. I know there is a 19% VAT on the materials I buy also.

I've itemized my costs and time below. It doesn't come out right when I go from preview to actual view so I've marked direct costs with an * and hours with a #. It's summarized at the end.

Sporran Costs
Item Direct Cost Hours
(euros)

Travel to Purchase Materials
Train Ticket divided by 5 sporrans 4*
Travel time, 8 hrs divided by 5 sporrans 1.6#
Lunch, 12 euro divided by 5 sporrans 2.4 *

Material Costs
Leather-80 euro per sheet, 5 sporrans /sheet 16*
Lacing 8*
Leather Dye 3.5*
Leather finish 3.5*
Rivets 0.5*
Heavy Thread 0.5*
Gusset Leather 5*
Magnetic Closure 3*
D rings 0.4*
Sponges 0.25*

Tool Depreciation 2*

Mailing
Postage 8*
Mailing envelope 1.5 *

Assembly
Tracing Outline Pattern 0.25#
Cutting Out Pieces 0.4#
Tracing front flap pattern 0.4#
Cutting front flap pattern 0.6#
Stamping front flap pattern 2#
Cutting other pieces 0.5#
Dying pieces 0.5#
Punching sewing holes 0.5#
Sewing front panel to gusset 1#
Punching lacing holes 0.6#
Lacing 1.3#
Painting design if required 2#
Applying finishes 0.5#
Clean-up 0.5#

Shipping
Preparing for shipping 0.4#
Drive to Post Office 0.6#
Gas Costs 3*

Total euro cost for materials and expense 61.55*
Total Labor Hours 13.65#
Conversion to US $ at 1 euro = 1.38 USD $84.94
Total Labor costs @ $10/hr $136.5

This was purely an intellectual exercise and is not intended to relate to what I actually charge nor am I suggesting what anyone else should charge.

Sporrans, like kilts, are available in a wide variety of styles, materials, and quality.
In a free marketplace, purchases are the coming together of a willing seller and a willing buyer.

I guess I'll have to keep working to support my hobby!

Cheers,
Tom

[Robin]

My turn...

A dirk kilt pin with a deer antler handle... €32,50



Materials used:
About 50 grams of leadfree pewter, a piece of antler, a 50mm brass pin with secuity closure, a 20mm M2 bolt, a 10mm M2 bolt, a M2 nut, a small balsa wooden box, a bit of wood chips, a printed label, a bit of seal wax, 2 drops of 2 part epoxy glue, potasium permangranate, to give the antler "character", 70cm colored rope, a small box or padded enveloppe, labels, printer cartridge ink, blackening/weathering acid, Zapon spray varnish, electricity, water, soap (to clean my hands once in a while)...and sometimes a bandage when I hurt myself.

About €4,50 ....I'm such a crook

Tools used:
A professional melting pot (€300 investment), re-usable oiled casting sand, a casting form, a band sanding machine to reduse the weight and flatten the rear of the pin, a Proxxon with flexible shaft (to drill holes and mill bolt head space), a large file to remove sprue, 10 different pin files to shape the pin, 350, 500, 1500 and 2000 grade sandpaper, 2mm and 1.5mm drills, polishing wool, rubbing compound, metal polish, an old tshirt, glue clamps, 2 ear cleaning tips.

Let's say...€1,00

Sub total...€5,50...I should be flogged to death for ripping my poor customers off

Now let's add some wee minutes work...

-Preparing the casting form....10 minutes.
-Fire up the melting machine, casting and cleaning up...5 minutes.
-Digging out the cast and check the result...5 minutes (not good? start again).
-Clean the pin...5 minutes.
-Sand down the back of the pin and remove access material...10 minutes.
-Drill holes and mill bolt head space...5 minutes.
-Smoothen the surface with pin files and sand paper...10 minutes.
-File the fish scalers...5 minutes (no mistake here!)
-Smoothen the surface with 1500 and 2000 grade sand paper...5 minutes
-Shape the antler to fit the handle space, 10 minutes.
-Insert the handle bolt and glue (2 part epoxy) the antler "block" in place (clamp in place and let cure)...5 minutes.
-File and sand down the antler to follow the shape of the handle...10 minutes.
-File and sand the antler to make it 3 dimensional...5 minutes.
-Drill holes in the backing pin...make sure the holes match the holes in the pin... drill some shallow holles in the back of the pin also for more grip for the epoxy....5 minutes.
-Sand the back of the pin and clean it with alcohol to degreace the surface...5 minutes.
-Attach the pin with 2 part epoxy glue, hammer the lower bolt (shortened to fit) in, secure the top bolt with a nut...clamp to cure...5 minutes.
-Cut and file off the top bolt end...5 minutes.
-Put the pin in an acid bath to blacken it...clean with water...repeat 2 or 3 times (dab corners with ear cleaner thingy when needed)...5 minutes.
-Polish the blade with fine metal wool and metal polish...leave the blood groove and fish scalers blackened...5 minutes.
-Rub the ferrules with a finger to give it a smooth but blackened finish...0 minutes.
-Dab the antler handle with deluted potasium...use another ear cleaning thiny to do this...rinse with water (repeat when needed)...5 minutes.
-Sand off the antler handle with 2000 grade sand paper (stay away from the ferules!!!!) until it looks nice...5 minutes.
-Inspect the pin and give it a final polishing...5 minutes.
-Varnish the pin with "Zapon" spray varnish...mainly to give the antler a nice shiny finish and to protect the blackened ferules...repeat this 2 times...let cure in between...10 minutes.
-Make a picture of the pin...put it on the comp...crop it....10 minutes.
-Measure and weight the pin, label the pin, put it in it's labeled box with, add a wax seal....5 minutes.
-Edit the web page and upload it to the server...5 minutes.
-Reply emails send by those who don't have a clue I'm a criminal trying to rip them off...make more pictures when someone asks for it...and inform them about the different P&P options....5 minutes.
-OMG!!!! someone took the bait!!! send the poor bastard a PayPal invoice and take the money (oh...minus 5% PayPal charges btw), put the pin in a box, print adress, fragile and retour labels, walk to the post office and send it to the poor sod...I won't "charge" a nice stroll to the post office...0 minutes.
-Edit the web page again..."sold" (muhahahaha!!!!), upload...5 minutes.

Total....180 minutes work €32,50...minus €5,50 used materials...minus €1,62 PayPal charges...is €25,38 in the pocket.

€8,46 (=$11,41) per hour.

I think I forgot to mention stuff like Google advertising expenses, website expenses, health insurence, business cards, communication with suppliers and some more.

[Freedomlover]

Yep. Lot's of work. But different folks have vastly different time requirements. A year or so ago I was cruising around the site of one of the bigger kiltmakers in Scotland (s***y, I don't recall which one), and he said that he turned out two handsewn finished kilts a day, and if pressed could do three. I think that if a maker was actually investing 25-30 hours, plus hundreds for material, he/she would quickly give it up as uneconomic even at $600 each.

[Alan H]

Yep. Lot's of work. But different folks have vastly different time requirements. A year or so ago I was cruising around the site of one of the bigger kiltmakers in Scotland (s***y, I don't recall which one), and he said that he turned out two handsewn finished kilts a day, and if pressed could do three. I think that if a maker was actually investing 25-30 hours, plus hundreds for material, he/she would quickly give it up as uneconomic even at $600 each.

Interesting. I have to wonder if he was teasing you or pulling your leg or there was a miscommunication or something. Barb has said that that it takes her about 20 hours to do a kilt. I believe Matt has said the same.

Bear once wrote on this board that it took him an 8-hour day plus a little more to crank out a fully machine-sewn, PV four-yard Bear Kilt.

How a custom kiltmaker could turn out three hand-sewn kilts in an 8-9 hour workday is beyond me. I could see two machine-sewn solid-color kilts, maybe. O'Neill on this board has said he can crank out a machine-sewn kilt in 4-5 hours, which boggles my mind...but OK. That's mighty darned fast, but *hey* it's within the realm of possibility. But that's machine sewn.

Three hand-sewn, wool, eight-yard kilts in one 8-9 hour work day? Three hours to make a kilt from selecting the fabric to finishing the buckles, hand-sewn? I have my doubts.

I don't doubt that that's what you heard...that's what the guy said, but I bet that something else was going on, here.