Scots-Irish

[beloitpiper]

Originally, my ancestor's last name was O'Longaigh, but when they came to the US, they encountered a lot of Irish persecution. SO, in an effort to be more W.A.S.P.-y, they changed their name to "Long", the English spelling.

[davedove]

Originally, my ancestor's last name was O'Longaigh, but when they came to the US, they encountered a lot of Irish persecution. SO, in an effort to be more W.A.S.P.-y, they changed their name to "Long", the English spelling.

That sort of thing happened a lot. You also have the legendary situation where the official processing the immigrants decided the name was to difficult to write. "From now on your name is Long." I don't know how much truth there are to those stories, but they are interesting.

[Big Paul]

I've seen a few explanations of the history of the Scots-Irish...my most direct ancestor that came to the "colonies" lived in Londonderry and emigrated to the Americas.
Best
AA

My family line came from The Moray region in Scotland, then to Londonderry Ire., then to Cumberland Co. Pennsylvania, then Kentucky. The family was Protestant until my Grandfather let my Grandmother ,who was Irish Catholic, raise the family Catholic.

I'm descended from Ulster-Scots, Scotch-Irish, English & German. In general, I'm a mutt, an American Mutt!

[David Dalglish]

Too complicated--The way I see this is, whatever country you were born in that is you nationallity, If you have Parents from different countries, you can then say that I was born in (say) Ireland & had a Scottish father or mother, you are then--Irish with Scottish decent, not Scot/Irish you cant be both.

[macwilkin]

Too complicated--The way I see this is, whatever country you were born in that is you nationallity, If you have Parents from different countries, you can then say that I was born in (say) Ireland & had a Scottish father or mother, you are then--Irish with Scottish decent, not Scot/Irish you cant be both.

David,

The term "Scots-Irish" generally refers to Lowland Scots who settled in Ulster (Northern Ireland) during the Plantation of Ulster (1600's) and then later immigrated to the US, Canada, etc.

Today, in Northern Ireland, the term "Ulster-Scots" is preferred, because in general, the Scots Protestants did not intermarry with their Irish Catholic neighbours.

At one time, the Scots-Irish in America were simply known as "Irish", until the immigration of the Southern Irish during the 1840's -- the term was used to designate the Ulster Irish from the newcomers, although there references to the term being used earlier than the 19th century.

Regards,

Todd

[Arlen]

As far as the whole Mc and Mac thing, it is similar to the idea that Lowlanders capitalise and highlanders don't. (IE MacDonald vs Macdonald.)
They are both just anglocized ways of spelling Gaelic names. Whether they be Scots, Irish, Manx, Breton... whatever
Yes, that's right, you get Manx and Breton names which begin with Mc or Mac.
It doesn't mean Scots or Irish, it just means son of somebody who probably a while back spoke Gaelic.
Similarly, Nic means daughter of. So the name Nicolson/Nicholson etc is Daughter of Olsen. A mix of Viking and Gaelic.
And similar to that you will get names that are Scots or Irish but have a Norman or German root.

I will admit, the Mc or Mac prefix to a name does tend to be more common in Scottish names, but it isn't solely Scottish or Irish.

[macwilkin]

As far as the whole Mc and Mac thing, it is similar to the idea that Lowlanders capitalise and highlanders don't. (IE MacDonald vs Macdonald.)

The late author Norman Maclean mentions this in A river runs throught it; when Norman's bother Paul changes his last name to MacLean, Norman's father says sadly, "Now everyone will think we're Lowlanders!"

Arlen, have you ever seen the movie or read the story? You would love it -- a Scottish-American family that fly-fishes!

Regards,

Todd

[Kiltedmusiclover]

The late author Norman Maclean mentions this in A river runs throught it; when Norman's bother Paul changes his last name to MacLean, Norman's father says sadly, "Now everyone will think we're Lowlanders!"

Arlen, have you ever seen the movie or read the story? You would love it -- a Scottish-American family that fly-fishes!

Regards,

Todd

I just picked up a DVD to replace my well worn VHS copy.
It is a good story with the outstanding natural beauty of
Montana as the star.

[macwilkin]

I just picked up a DVD to replace my well worn VHS copy.
It is a good story with the outstanding natural beauty of
Montana as the star.

Nelson,

Did you know there is another movie of one of Maclean's stories?

The Ranger, the cook and a hole in the sky was made into a TV movie back in the 1990's, starring Sam Elliot is USFS Ranger Bill Bell. I was fortunate enough to find a VHS copy:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0114235/

It's a nice story, nothing earth-shattering. The town scenes were filmed at the set in Mape Ridge, BC where the TV show Bordertown was filmed.

I love Maclean's writing; his father reminds me of my grandmother in terms of the Scottish Presbyterian ethos.

T.

[slohairt]

As far as the whole Mc and Mac thing, it is similar to the idea that Lowlanders capitalise and highlanders don't. (IE MacDonald vs Macdonald.)
They are both just anglocized ways of spelling Gaelic names. Whether they be Scots, Irish, Manx, Breton... whatever
Yes, that's right, you get Manx and Breton names which begin with Mc or Mac.
It doesn't mean Scots or Irish, it just means son of somebody who probably a while back spoke Gaelic.
Similarly, Nic means daughter of. So the name Nicolson/Nicholson etc is Daughter of Olsen. A mix of Viking and Gaelic.
And similar to that you will get names that are Scots or Irish but have a Norman or German root.

I will admit, the Mc or Mac prefix to a name does tend to be more common in Scottish names, but it isn't solely Scottish or Irish.

Dia Dhuit!

As far as capitalisation, it's true that many Lowlanders (of Highland descent) did not capitalise the stem of their patronymic, while Highlanders often did. Conversely, there are anglicised names which almost never have a capitalised root.

Manx uses a very different orthography than the other two languages. It is loosely based on Welsh/English phonetic rendering. Mac is only represented in Manx names by a residual "c" at the beginning.

Breton, is of course, a Celtic language, but it's particular patronymic is "Ab" which corresponds to the Welsh "Ap." Both mean "son of" like the Gaelic "mac"
However, the language is distantly related to Gaelic, as it belongs to the Brythonic branch.

You're right, "Nic" does mean "daughter of." However, the name Nic(h)olson is Mac Neacail meaning "son of Nicholas." Daughter of would be Nic Neacail.

So, yes, Mac is exclusively Gaelic (meaning Irish, Scottish, and Manx).

Sorry to ramble Just got to dust off studies!