Allowed tartans

[davedove]

It all goes back to the saying often used around here that one does not need to be a cowboy to wear jeans, boots or a hat,

I appreciate the analogy, but some folks think that if you haven't worked a ranch, or at least ridden a horse, you haven't "earned" those clothes; you're just a drug store cowboy.

I don't deny anyone the right to wear whatever tartan they want, for whatever reason, but I like to have some connection to a tartan. If nothing else, it helps to narrow the choices for my next kilt.

[auld argonian]

I appreciate the analogy, but some folks think that if you haven't worked a ranch, or at least ridden a horse, you haven't "earned" those clothes; you're just a drug store cowboy.

Okay...but just think about all of those folks who make their living making and selling cowboy accoutrements. I'd bet that there are at least a couple of towns out West that wouldn't still be there if it weren't for the tourists and their buying the hat and the shirt and the boots when they blow into town...not to mention the meals and the lodgings and the trail rides and the dude ranches...I won't get into skiing. I've heard about the great fun that the gen-u-ine ranch folks have picking out the dudes in Jackson Hole...but if it weren't a tourist destination, who would ever have heard of Jackson Hole (and I know the whole thing about it not really being Jackson "Hole"...I'm just refering to it as that because it's become the popular way to refer to it).

Point being: I've never heard of a kilt shop demanding a certificate of clan membership before they'd sell you a kilt. If tartan ownership was that limited, there wouldn't be many kilt shops or manufacturers. One could conjecture that that would make tartan even MORE costly than it already is...they'd be weaving one or two kilts worth at a time. You might be ready to pay twice as much for that tank in your family tartan but what about your "poor relations"? Are they to go kiltless because of the cost? Should Clan associations shoulder the additional expense...sort of a kilt grant program for clan members?

The vast majority of the foks who are active in this forum are honorable and understand the ins and outs of tartan...they are the ones who educate the mass of poor unfortunates who DON'T know from tartan or kilts. I expect that anyone who finds a tartan that they desire will educate himself/herself about the tartan's associations and won't do anything to dishonor the clan (...so think twice about that "last" pint once in a while...). One of the first questions that is asked of anyone in a kilt is, "Is that your family tartan?" Why? Because people have a need to have things that make them at once unique and at the same time part of a group...the questioner projects that need on the questioned. Has anyone else seen the let down on their faces when you politely explain that, no, you do not have a proper family tartan but you are wearing the Campbell of Cawdor because...face it, they don't really want to hear the long explanation, it was merely a polite bit of conversation.

Try this tactic next time:

them: "So...is that your family tartan?"

you: "No. Say...do you think that they have any Guinness at the bar? I could murder a pint...how 'bout you?"

...thus you have gracefully sidestepped giving a long explanation that no one really wanted to hear in the first place.

But, as I said, if it was really totally limited, there would be only a very small business in tartan and kilts and not the blossoming kilt renaissance that we seem to be experiencing now.

Best

AA

[beloitpiper]

I soooo regret ever starting this thread.

People are free to call me a snob or whatever, but I still believe what I believe. I've heard the argument "tartans have only been associated with clans for the past 150 years or so". Well guess what? They are now associated with clans.

I'm not going to wear a tartan I am not associated with. At the same time I'm not going to attack somebody wearing whatever tartan they please. All I ask, and I want to do this as politely as possible, is that you know and respect what you wear.

[macwilkin]

I'm not going to wear a tartan I am not associated with. At the same time I'm not going to attack somebody wearing whatever tartan they please. All I ask, and I want to do this as politely as possible, is that you know and respect what you wear.

There were several of us who share this opinion with you, Greg.

I feel that should be pointed out that those of us who share this opinion aren't saying that it applies to anyone but ourselves, or that we are trying to make "non-Scots" ashamed of wearing a clan tartan, etc. For whatever personal reason, some folks are not comfortable wearing a tartan they have no connection with, just as others are not as worried about it. Different horses for courses, I always say...

I agree with many who say there are no "rules" for wearing tartan, but for many, tartan is a very personal thing. As long as there is mutual respect, then we are all right.

Regards,

Todd

[jdbenson]

All this talk of blue jeans reminds me of a kid I knew years ago, who was NOT ALLOWED to wear blue jeans. Seems his mother came from a very wealthy "Old Money" family, and she equated blue jeans with lower class working folk, and she was not going to allow her son to wear such an article of clothing.

For his mother, blue jeans were not clothes, they were a uniform; or more precisely a symbol. I'm sure at one point in time, that was true. But, nowadays, jeans have outgrown that symbol of working class (Heck, I've seen jeans paired with a tux shirt & jacket at weddings).

Kilts are following in blue jeans' path. They've gone from being merely functional, to being a symbol/uniform of scottish/clan/highland pride. Now as their popularity increases they're becoming more of a fashion statement, just as jeans have done.

Seems to me this is the natural progression of things. Does that mean that the kilt will stop being a symbol of Scottish/Clan/Highland pride? I doubt it. Does that mean that more people will embrace and enjoy the freedom the kilt offers? I hope so. I just hope people take enough time to learn at least a little of the history and heritage of the kilt, and wear them with pride, as I know WE all do.

[O'Cathain]

Matt Newsome sums it up best in his article on The Introduction to Tartan on The Scottish Tartan Museum's Website. I would think that the non-Scottish X Marks members who pick a clan tartan that they like, educate themselves on it. I am more confident wearing a clan tartan of my choosing than a country or district or generic tartan, not to say that I don't like them. It is emulating a country and it's heritage. Just like the purists who wouldn't wear a tartan they are not associated with, I won't wear a tartan that is not associated with a clan.

[macwilkin]

Matt Newsome sums it up best in his article on The Introduction to Tartan on The Scottish Tartan Museum's Website. I would think that the non-Scottish X Marks members who pick a clan tartan that they like, educate themselves on it. I am more confident wearing a clan tartan of my choosing than a country or district or generic tartan, not to say that I don't like them. It is emulating a country and it's heritage. Just like the purists who wouldn't wear a tartan they are not associated with, I won't wear a tartan that is not associated with a clan.

Interesting, but I'm not sure about your comparison...I wear a state tartan (Iowa), which symbolizes all of my family who were from Iowa, including my Scots ancestors that I wear my clan tartan for. One symbolises their clan and the land they came from, the other with the land to which they came. To me, district and clan tartans can work very well together. A district tartan also is the perfect alternative for those who may not have a clan tartan, or may not wish to wear one.

So...I'm not sure I understand your reasons for not wearing a district tartan -- care to explain?

Regards,

Todd

[O'Cathain]

I guess what I'm trying to say is that anything other than a clan tartan is not the "real" thing either. Correct we if I'm wrong. So why not revere the tradition of tartans being associated with clans? Why not go all the way and do it "right" according to a 150 year old tradition? I'm not trying to ruffle feathers, I believe that know one can tell you what you can and can't do, but if something is tied close to a culture like the kilt is. It should be respected. So I think there is a line between a kilt and a kilt like garment. And......that brings up another topic. Which always comes up, What's that line? A non-clan associated tartan kilt, a fashion tartan kilt, solid color kilts? No matter what it was before, if it is the accepted tradition of the current times it should be respected.

[macwilkin]

I guess what I'm trying to say is that anything other than a clan tartan is not the "real" thing either. Correct we if I'm wrong. So why not revere the tradition of tartans being associated with clans? Why not go all the way and do it "right" according to a 150 year old tradition? I'm not trying to ruffle feathers, I believe that know one can tell you what you can and can't do, but if something is tied close to a culture like the kilt is. It should be respected. So I think there is a line between a kilt and a kilt like garment. And......that brings up another topic. Which always comes up, What's that line? A non-clan associated tartan kilt, a fashion tartan kilt, solid color kilts? No matter what it was before, if it is the accepted tradition of the current times it should be respected.

Of course, if you read Matt's work on the subject, you'll find that the district tartan concept is much more "legitmate" than the clan tartan:

http://www.district-tartans.com/intro.htm

I'm sorry, but I disagree; I think the district, clan, and regimental tartan all can "work together", for lack of a better term. I don't think wearing a district tartan is disrespecting clan tartans, but on the contrary, provides yet another alternative for the kilt-wearer and is just as legitimate, if not more so, as the clan tartan.

T.

[O'Cathain]

I'm not trying to ruffle feathers, I believe that know one can tell you what you can and can't do, but if something is tied close to a culture like the kilt is.

I correct myself "nobody".