Allowed tartans

[Quaich Maker]

Consider this .

""The Black Watch - The Clan Grant Hunting Tartan
The "Black Watch" sett in the Ancient Colors is known as the Grant Hunting tartan. This is the Hunting Tartan recommended for Clan Grant by our Chief. "Hunting" tartans supposedly developed as alternate tartan setts for the clans, with darker colors, and worn while "hunting" because it acted as a better camouflage outdoors (the belief being that the standard or "dress" tartan setts, with brighter colors, would scare off their quary).

The Black Watch tartan is the Grant "Hunting" tartan due to our clan's long association with this regiment. The original Black Watch regiments enlisted men from Clan Grant, and it is said that this tartan was originally a Grant tartan before being adopted as the official tartan of the regiment. There are many clans, such as the Campbells, whose standard tartan is identical to the Grant hunting tartan, or other clans, who have a variation of the Black Watch tartan (typically with lighter colors, an extra stripe, or a light stripe somewhere in the sett, etc), whose clan members were part of the original Black Watch Regiment and adopted the Black Watch tartan or a variation of it as their own. The Black Watch tartan in the modern colors is currently one of the most recognized tartans in the world, and is one of a handful that are considered by many to be a "national" tartan for Scotland. ""

http://www.clangrant-us.org/tartans.htm

[MacWage]

Consider this .

""The Black Watch - The Clan Grant Hunting Tartan
The "Black Watch" sett in the Ancient Colors is known as the Grant Hunting tartan. This is the Hunting Tartan recommended for Clan Grant by our Chief. "Hunting" tartans supposedly developed as alternate tartan setts for the clans, with darker colors, and worn while "hunting" because it acted as a better camouflage outdoors (the belief being that the standard or "dress" tartan setts, with brighter colors, would scare off their quary).

The Black Watch tartan is the Grant "Hunting" tartan due to our clan's long association with this regiment. The original Black Watch regiments enlisted men from Clan Grant, and it is said that this tartan was originally a Grant tartan before being adopted as the official tartan of the regiment. There are many clans, such as the Campbells, whose standard tartan is identical to the Grant hunting tartan, or other clans, who have a variation of the Black Watch tartan (typically with lighter colors, an extra stripe, or a light stripe somewhere in the sett, etc), whose clan members were part of the original Black Watch Regiment and adopted the Black Watch tartan or a variation of it as their own. The Black Watch tartan in the modern colors is currently one of the most recognized tartans in the world, and is one of a handful that are considered by many to be a "national" tartan for Scotland. ""

http://www.clangrant-us.org/tartans.htm

I am in full agreement.
My FIRST homemade kilt (and by its quality, THAT is what it was) is in Black Watch, as is one of my worsted wool belted plaids.

Nowadays, Black Watch HAS become a de facto "national" tartan (whether or not people like it that way).

It is also a NUMBER of clan tartans and the basis of my beloved Gordon tartan.


At the end of the day, I LOVE the Black Watch tartan. I WILL probably make another one in that tartan in the future. (I'll probably come up with a REALLY good excuse as to WHY, but the reason WILL be that I like it so much.)

Todd will probably want to "shoot" me for this post.

[macwilkin]

Todd will probably want to "shoot" me for this post.

Not necessarily, John...my first kilt was a surplus kilt from the Black Watch of Canada (but made in Scotland) when I was doing WWI reenacting.

Nowadays, I don't know if I could wear the Government sett because of my own personal beliefs regarding the tartan -- maybe as a reenactor again. But I won't begrudge anyone who does, and especially not the Grants, since:

1. Lord Strathspey is our St. Andrew's Society's patron
2. The Cummings have had a long association with the Grants



T.

[Quaich Maker]

Not necessarily, John...my first kilt was a surplus kilt from the Black Watch of Canada (but made in Scotland) when I was doing WWI reenacting.

Nowadays, I don't know if I could wear the Government sett because of my own personal beliefs regarding the tartan -- maybe as a reenactor again. But I won't begrudge anyone who does, and especially not the Grants, since:

1. Lord Strathspey is our St. Andrew's Society's patron
2. The Cummings have had a long association with the Grants



T.

cajunscot ,
you miss the point of the article .
And that point is , that the Black Watch tartan , is a Grant tartan .

[macwilkin]

cajunscot ,
you miss the point of the article .
And that point is , that the Black Watch tartan , is a Grant tartan .

No, I didn't miss your point. In fact, I posted the same link to that article on the US Clan Grant Society's web site several pages back in this thread.

I am quite aware that the Government Sett is also the Hunting tartan of the Clan Grant. If you'll notice, I did say that I would not begrudge the Clan Grant for wearing the Government Sett, especially since my own clan, the Cummings, and the Grants have had a "special relationship" (good and bad) over the years -- a Cumming even served as the Grant Chief's piper, as depicted in the famous painting.

Again, I am certainly not saying the Grants are wrong in wearing Government Sett as their hunting tartan -- far from it. My main purpose was replying to John's little jibe about me "shooting" him over his wearing of the Government Sett. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

Regards,

Todd

[Quaich Maker]

No, I didn't miss your point. In fact, I posted the same link to that article on the US Clan Grant Society's web site several pages back in this thread.

I am quite aware that the Government Sett is also the Hunting tartan of the Clan Grant. If you'll notice, I did say that I would not begrudge the Clan Grant for wearing the Government Sett, especially since my own clan, the Cummings, and the Grants have had a "special relationship" (good and bad) over the years -- a Cumming even served as the Grant Chief's piper, as depicted in the famous painting.

Again, I am certainly not saying the Grants are wrong in wearing Government Sett as their hunting tartan -- far from it. My main purpose was replying to John's little jibe about me "shooting" him over his wearing of the Government Sett. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

Regards,

Todd

Todd ,
you still miss the point .
That the Black Watch wear the Grant Hunting Tartan .
Not the other way round
That is the position taken by the Grant articles , that you are drawing from .

[macwilkin]

Todd ,
you still miss the point .
That the Black Watch wear the Grant Hunting Tartan .
Not the other way round
That is the position taken by the Grant articles , that you are drawing from .

You might wish to read a couple of articles by our own resident tartan scholar, Matt Newsome:

http://www.albanach.org/blackwatch.htm

and

http://www.albanach.org/tartanname.htm

Happy Reading!

Todd

[MacWage]

Consider this .

""The Black Watch - The Clan Grant Hunting Tartan
The "Black Watch" sett in the Ancient Colors is known as the Grant Hunting tartan. This is the Hunting Tartan recommended for Clan Grant by our Chief. "Hunting" tartans supposedly developed as alternate tartan setts for the clans, with darker colors, and worn while "hunting" because it acted as a better camouflage outdoors (the belief being that the standard or "dress" tartan setts, with brighter colors, would scare off their quary).

Origin of ALL "hunting" tartans: darker tartan, often based on the "normal" one. Usually it is a case of color replacement in the same sett. Sometimes it is a WHOLE different tartan. The WHOLE "hunting" and "dress" tartan things strikes me as a case of "why not us too"-ism. The earliest "hunting" tartan seems to have been "Hunting MacLeod," AKA MacLeod of Harris (which may have been adopted simply as a more subtle tartan than "Loud MacLeod" (since named Dress MacLeod or MacLeod of Lewis). Others seem to have thought: "If the MacLeod's can have 2 tartans, WHY can't WE?" So, others took up "hunting tartans" using Alternatively, some clans, usually those using darker toned tartans, did the reverse and adopted "dress" tartans. Many of these were the regular sett, but with large amounts of WHITE added (see Dress Gordon).
The above argument is what most clans claimed when adopting hunting tartans.

The Black Watch tartan is the Grant "Hunting" tartan due to our clan's long association with this regiment.

THE REASON it was adopted! It was adopted FROM the regiment, BECAUSE of associations.

The original Black Watch regiments enlisted men from Clan Grant, and it is said that this tartan was originally a Grant tartan before being adopted as the official tartan of the regiment.

I didn't notice THIS section when I agreed with this post originally.

THAT I STRONGLY DISAGREE WITH!!!!!

There are many clans, such as the Campbells, whose standard tartan is identical to the Grant hunting tartan, or other clans, who have a variation of the Black Watch tartan (typically with lighter colors, an extra stripe, or a light stripe somewhere in the sett, etc), whose clan members were part of the original Black Watch Regiment and adopted the Black Watch tartan or a variation of it as their own. The Black Watch tartan in the modern colors is currently one of the most recognized tartans in the world, and is one of a handful that are considered by many to be a "national" tartan for Scotland. ""

http://www.clangrant-us.org/tartans.htm

Not much to argue with here. It basically says: 1) Other clans use Black Watch or Black Watch based tartans as their clan tartans too. 2) Black Watch is VERY recognizable.
Both of those statements are VERY true.

The shading is ONLY significant in allowing the differences in colors between the black and navy (in particular) and the green. Thompson recommends "ancient" colors for THAT reason. The toning itself means NOTHING in the identity of the tartan, as ALL can have modern, ancient, weathered (really "blued" or "browned"), etc.

(more clarity on my earlier post, esp. after reading the quoted post again more carefully.