Creating new patterns for kilt jackets

[AtagahiKC]

Working from the success of the X-kilt pattern and other kiltmaking groups and classes, I propose that we form a work group to tackle the issue and create a method to create patterns customized to our bodies and methods of construction and tailoring to make them fit as well as we can manage (not being professional tailors).

It strikes me that in looking at kilt jackets, most don't do a good job of fitting in length (reaching the waist or fell) or are hard to come by in larger or tall/short sizes that truly fit.

While there are some new options (and more coming thanks to SWK, the Tartan Museum and Freedom Kilts), it would be nice to be able to make one's own custom-fit jackets in different fabrics or for special occassions.

Likewise, the same fit problems some of us have now will probably be present in the newer options since the problem is in the disproportions from the "norm" of the master pattern. It isn't cost-effective to mass-produce kilt jackets that fit those of us who represent the hard-to-fit range.

Although there are rudimentary commercial patterns here and there, the same fit problems are present, as well as limited sizes of patterns. There is only so much alteration to a commercial pattern one can do before creating a custom pattern is easier.

From previous posts, it seems that there are others interested in kilt jacket patterns and how to do it ourselves. If you are interested in this, let me know. I'm happy to share what I'm learning with anyone else who is interested.

I will post my slow progress on this thread. However, I need some partners in crime to work with me since I am really a novice at sewing, patternmaking and construction. I figure that we'll make mistakes, but can learn collectively how to make a prototype pattern or patterns that others can use, along with instructions and tips to avoid the problems we've encountered.

I would greatly appreciate it if some of the kilt makers would join in and monitor the thread regarding how to make the jackets look best with the kilts. I'm guessing that there are common frustrations that kiltmakers have with the jackets they see at various functions, too. This would be the forum to address those concerns to make sure we don't replicate them.

I would also appreciate it if anyone from the Highland regiments in the U.K or Commonwealth would share their invaluable knowledge of how the military jackets are or were fitted and worn. All of the current jackets and doublets were or are variations on military jackets from England, Scotland, Ireland and later U.K. renditions, so far as I've been able to determine.

From my reading thus far, I know that the military jackets varied by time period and by regiment. Although that may be too daunting a task to handle in total here, we should be able to construct the basic tunic pattern that allows one to make variations from there (for reenactment enthusiasts).

First: What are the problems and gripes/concerns you have with kilt jackets that you'd like the group to try to remedy?

For example: Shouldn't the sides of a Prince Charlie should come at least to the waist to cover the shirt, and the tail drop to the fell line on the kilt? I know mine doesn't, even though it is supposed to be a "long".

From looking at pictures on vendor sites, it appears that this is the goal, but the jackets don't fit the people. This could be that the "normal" proportions are derived from olden days when people were smaller, or just the fact that you can't fit every body in the rental or mass production of jackets for a niche market.

Please post your concerns or complaints about jackets here and I'll create a poll for everyone to vote to help us prioritize the issues.

[AtagahiKC]

To reiterate, the goal of the project is to learn and publish here how to create a custom pattern based on the measurements of a person, then create a set of instructions for construction and tailoring that others can use to create their own jackets.

We will not create a pattern in the normal sense that covers a size range and is sold in an envelope. I've got two of the main commercial patterns and they leave much to be desired in how to tailor it to fit the actual person, and in instructions.

The point is to create a jacket that fits correctly on the person for whom it was created. That requires creating the pattern from scratch.

However, once created, the pattern can be used again for other jackets. From what I've read, it looks like the same basic pattern archetype can be modified to create other styles fairly easily.

To organize the workings of this project, I foresee three to four larger topics.

1) Measuring and Standards: We will need to work out what measurements are required, based on the texts, as well as the standards we decide are pertinent. The standards will hopefully come from the issues that people point out in response to the above post.

For example, if a Prince Charlie's tail is to reach the fell line of the kilt, do we need to include the distance to the fell line from the back waist line? What other measurements will help make the pattern useful to other jacket types?

2) Patternmaking: This is where we take the measurements and create the basic pattern for that person. We also adjust the pattern for the person's "disproportions" to the model pattern prototype.

3) Muslin Fitting: The basic pattern is used to create a muslin shell. A fitting is done on the person to make adjustments to the pattern before cutting the expensive cloth. We make the final pattern from the muslin fitting pieces (or use the muslin as the pattern, if we are bold and don't need a more durable pattern for future jackets).

4) Construction: Using the final pattern, the jacket cloth is cut and sewn together. We will discuss and decide on tailoring techniques that work best to give a good fit, within our skills as non-tailors. (I don't expect us to replicate the work of a master tailor, just get a reasonably good fit and finish.)

We'll accumulate a set of tips and other information (suppliers and lists of items needed, such as padding, lining, etc.) that others can use in creating their own jacket. I was surprised that many tailors use precut suit jacket interfaces for basic patterns from which to work. The suppliers even sell kits with the interfaces and other items needed, other than the suiting material.

We may or may not create patterns for other jacket types. I suspect that our main jacket prototype can be used to create multiple variations with some modifications. We may all want to add those tips as we tackle those projects in the future.

When this project is completed, those who participate will likely have learned skills that they can use to make men's clothing and even period costumes for men. I suspect that the same skills are pertinent to women's tailored clothes, as well.

Finally, I want to be clear that I am learning this as we go along, as well. I have a relatively clear picture in my head of how this all works, but it will take some trial and error on my part as well as everyone else's part.

We won't be the blind leading the blind, though. I have accumulated a good set of text books and other resources that I think will make it possible for us to accomplish the goal of the project. But it will take all of our work and contributions to make the final set of instructions and diagrams usable for others to use in the future.

Oh yeah, someone needs to edit the instructions and final product to make it clear and concise. Obviously, that is not in my skillset! :-)

[Andrew Breecher]

I think the biggest issue which separates kilt jackets from the usual sport coat is that they are fitted with the use of darts, rather than sack jackets. I find this is what detracts the most from jacket conversions; I think the fitted jacket looks better as it hugs the waist a bit more.

If you're using a muslin base, it would be simple to provide a basic drape, with markings where darts could take it in - a series of "V" markings for instance, or at least a large "V" with the instructions to pull it in here, and pin it until it fits.

Andrew.

[gilmore]

What a wonderful idea for a much-needed solution. I am looking forward to this thread, and hope to be able to contribute what little I can.

[Mark Keeney]

I have used patterns from the "envelope" patterns and have had very good luck with them. Some patterns are better designed than others and that you can tell by reading the instructions. Altering patterns to fit is also described in the pattern or basic sewing books. I have noticed the pattern books have fewer and fewer patterns for jackets. One of my favorite pattern company for jackets has been Burda. The older Burda patterns didn't include seam markings and you had to add them but it made laying out a pattern easier and altering easier.

If you are starting from scratch you might find a jacket that fits well and deconstruct that and use as a pattern.

You also used to be able to buy men's tailored shoulder pads in the fabric shops but they are impossible to find any now.

[Alan H]

This is a significant project. Honestly? I'm not sure I'd want to bite off making my own argyll-type jacket. I watched my wife, who is a MUCH better seamstress than I am, make a suit-type womens jacket. It looked OK, not stunning-great but OK. I shudder to think what I'd turn out.

Good luck, though!

[Pleater]

The fitted jacket is the height of the tailors art.

I had a friend who was a proper time served tailor and to watch her at work was amazing.

The cloth of a jacket is pressed and eased and moulded, there is stiffening and suport added, the lining is not the same size as the outer and although it is smaller in outline, in places it has to have extra fabric folded gathered or eased in to allow the same amount of movement as the outer or it will eventually split.

The key to the jacket is the shoulders - if they are wrong the jacket will never hang right. It is rare for a person to have shoulders at exactly the same height and making a slight adjustment to counteract the tilt that puts into a jacket will make it look a lot better.

One of my friend's customers needed his jackets altered to have an inch and a half taken off one side - and that was done by separating the inner and outer structure and easing in the wool outer, then recutting the underpinning and replacing the sleeve unchanged.

From watching TV I see that the average American wears a jacket which is looser in the body and less shaped than the average European. The shoulders are more rigid, so it seems that the shape of the wearer is less important than the styling of the jacket in the US.

Making a jacket from scratch is a considerable undertaking, if the result is to look well made.

Having someone to help with the fitting who can see where the shape is wrong and deduce how to correct it would be a great advantage, though there are some sewing books from past decades which give numerous 'figure faults' which are shown up in wrinkling of close fitted garments and give the ways to alter the clothes to smooth them out. I'm sure I have several in my library, but such books very rarely go into the area of men's jackets as it is usually beyond the average dressmaker.

[BozemanboB]

I think a good place for you to start is by deconstructing a thrift-store jacket.

I bought two jackets with the intent of modifying them. I didn't just cut off the bottom - I opened it up from the bottom and repinched several of the darts to make it more fitted. I also sewed closed the center-rear split and made two splits at the side. It's far from perfect, but I won't be embarassed to wear it in public since no casual onlooker will notice the faults.

It was a heck of an experience, and now that I know what is inside a jacket I'm even more intimidated by the thought of making my own. Further, considering that the only thing I can see is the pieces and not the construction methods and techniques, I can't begin to understand what it really takes to make a jacket.

Having said all that, I applaud the effort and will contribute what I can.


boB

[AtagahiKC]

Thanks, everyone, for your interest and input. I agree, this is a daunting task.

Tailoring is an art, to be sure. I don't pretend that we'll master that art, so it makes it all the more important to make a pattern that fits well to begin with. We'll learn what we can of tailoring to make our resulting jackets fit the best we can make them fit.

1. There are tailor supply stores; I'm collecting links. I'll publish those soon. They have the shoulder pads, tailor hams, etc.

2. Books - I also have several books that might be of interest to the team. You don't need to purchase them if you don't want to, but here they are:

A. Classic Tailoring Techniques: A Construction Guide for Men's Wear, by Roberto Cabrera and Patricia Flaherty Meyers, $55. This is expensive, but I think it will be invaluable on the shaping and tailoring aspects of the project.

B. The Complete Guide to Practical Cutting (1853), by Edward Minister & Son, $31.95. Again, this isn't cheap. There are pages of this published on costume sites, but this is the only printed version I found of the complete 19th Century text. The online sources don't appear to give the complete instructions. This is where we find the instructions on creating the custom patterns from the measurements, using the author's system.

It also gives the then contemporary variations for military jackets for the various British military branches, including the Highlander regiments. It also gives instructions for an Inverness Cape and most other types of garments worn by men in the 1850's. There are some women's clothing patterns and construction information, as well. This might be worth getting if you are a historic re-enactor.

Commercial Patterns

There are two commercial patterns that I bought, which I will use as a reference and control on the custom pattern we develop. While these patterns really aren't usable for me as a pattern out of the envelope, some may want to start with these and adjust the pattern to fit based on what we work up for our custom patterns.

3. Prince Charlie Jacket - Folkwear Pattern #152, $19.95. Note that this is sized for S-M-L only.

4. Argyle Jacket - Simplicity #5029, $16.95. Sized from XS to XL (32 to 48). You'll have to scroll down to find it, or search for the pattern using the pattern search tool. Obviously, this is meant to be a costume, so it isn't going to make a very satisfactory kilt jacket, but it is a starting point, if you fit the pattern's range.

I also have a PC and Argyle jacket to use as a model to work against. If you have one that sort of fits, you can use it to hold up the pattern pieces (commercial or our custom ones) to see if it looks reasonably similar. Keep in mind that the pattern may be slightly different if you've adjusted it for sloping shoulders, etc. The general size is what you will compare.

There are other books, to which I'll provide links, as we go along.

Patternmaking Supplies

5. Paper. To make the pattern, you'll also need some form of paper on which to draft. I am looking for something now. I know there is pattern paper with grids made, but it may be cost prohibitive. I think butcher paper will work for the drafts, or even blank newspaper stock (available from newspapers for a small fee, usually). Once you've created the final adjustments, you'll probably want to use something acid-free to make the final pattern so it will last longer.

6. Strait edge and French Curve: You'll need these to create the lines on the pattern drafts. I suggest getting clear acrylic ones with measurements, etc. inscribed. You should be able to find these locally in art stores. You want a fairly large French curve since you'll use it to make the neck hole and other curves for the male body. Likewise, you'll want a 18" to 24" straitedge for the same reason. If you can't find one locally, I'll try to find an online source.

My goal is to update this once a week with the progress. For this week, just look around and start collecting supplies for pattern drafting.

[AtagahiKC]

This site has several other books that have instructions on creating patterns for men's clothes from the 1600's to 1907. I can't afford to buy them all, but if you buy one, please feel free to chime in on how your source differs from what I'm using in pattern making, etc.

http://www.lacis.com/catalog/data/b_drafting.html