Names of places and highland attire

[Panache]

I believe sgian dubh simply means "black knife" in Gallic.

sgian = knife

dubh = black


Cheers

Jamie

Neat, someone fell into the trap!

Please do research some more, and get back to me.

Hint - find out what the actual definition of each word is first.

Sgian means - - - ?

Dubh means - - - - ?

Then justify your reasoning.

[McClef]

Maybe as we are using a Gallic term we should use the Gallic plural form of sgian sgèanan dubh...

[James MacMillan]

Maybe as we are using a Gallic term we should use the Gallic plural form of sgian sgèanan dubh...

Now we're getting somewhere!

Consider the following:

Brother - Brethren
Foot - feet
alumna - alumnae
index - indices
datum - data
cherub - cherubim
inuk - inuit
son-in-law - sons-in-law

In order to properly use a word that stems from another language, I suggest that we go back to that other language.

Now what?

[Daaaaang]

I guess you'd want to either Gallic it up and say sgèanan dubh, or you'd want to English it up and say sgian dubhs. Somewhere in between is incorrect by both standards.

For example, you can say formulae and fora, but most English-speakers say formulas and forums. Both are "correct," whatever that means.

[TheKiltedWonder]

Brother - Brethren
Foot - feet
alumna - alumnae
index - indices
datum - data
cherub - cherubim
inuk - inuit
son-in-law - sons-in-law

In order to properly use a word that stems from another language, I suggest that we go back to that other language.

Not to be a nitpicky linguist, but I believe brother/brethren, foot/feet, son/sons are all English words from Old English and use English plural endings. "-en" is an old English ending, that is still seen in words such as "oxen". The "o" to "e" change is the result of fronting vowels to make a plural, such as in foot/feet, mouse/mice. Son becomes sons because that is the noun. This is like Attornies General and Surgeons General (I've always wanted to dress up for Halloween in a military uniform and put a stethescope around my neck). <opinionated statement> Also, I feel like datum/data is used a bit mean-spiritedly in some halls of higher-learning to put down students without a working knowledge of Latin endings </opinionated statement>

That said, I totally agree that the best choice is to use the plural found in the native language, and I totally agree with the point you made with the Latin/Hebrew/Inuit. Unless of course the plural in the native-language is so unknown by English speakers that you're the only one using it, because in "proper" language a lot of times majority rules; if you're the only one using the Gaelic plural, then it will be hard for that to win out over the English plural. The lecture is over now; you may all wake up and move on to your next class. There will be a quiz next week.

[McClef]

alumna - alumnae

Is it not Alumnus? I am an Alumnus of the University of St Andrews and they think it is.

This is like Attornies General and Surgeons General

That said, I totally agree that the best choice is to use the plural found in the native language, and I totally agree with the point you made with the Latin/Hebrew/Inuit. Unless of course the plural in the native-language is so unknown by English speakers that you're the only one using it, because in "proper" language a lot of times majority rules; if you're the only one using the Gaelic plural, then it will be hard for that to win out over the English plural.

To have Attorney Generals or Surgeon Generals would seem to indicated a senior military man practising law or surgical operations.

But yes, there is the problem where there are not many speakers of a language around that the word may be imported into English but then be made subject to English rules. All or most English speakers will know what an Eisteddfod is but they probably wont pronounce the singular correct (not remembering to pronounce the single f as a v) but will pluralise by adding an s instead if the correct au. And the Brits and the Americans can not always agree on words in the first place!

[gilmore]

An interesting double pluralization comes from brogue, the Gaelic for shoe. The plural in Gaelic is broguen or broguan, but somehow in the American South, especially rural areas, "brogans" has come to mean a pair of heavy work shoes/boots that come up to the ankle.

[James MacMillan]

Well, even though, the thread was hi-jacked, we still managed to get a good discussion going.

If we continue to keep an open mind, and a sense of humor (humour) we can learn things, even into old age.

The points taken with usage is also correct. Common usage changes our dictionaries every day.

You can look at kilt web-sites and see many spellings of the same things.

One black knife has finally been standardized into sgian dubh, but it wasn't that many years ago, that you would see many spellings of that term.

The plural is seen many places as both sgian dubhs and sgians dubh.

I, for one, would like to see sgèanan dubh adopted, but I will be happy with sgians dubh.

[TheKiltedWonder]

Is it not Alumnus? I am an Alumnus of the University of St Andrews and they think it is.

You're an alumnus because you're male. The Plural is alumni. An alumna is a female, with alumnae as the plural. Luckily alumni and alumnae sound the same (from what I remember of Latin) so as long as you use the plural and are speaking there's no need to worry about spelling/gender preference.

[gilmore]

You're an alumnus because you're male. The Plural is alumni. An alumna is a female, with alumnae as the plural. Luckily alumni and alumnae sound the same (from what I remember of Latin) so as long as you use the plural and are speaking there's no need to worry about spelling/gender preference.

In Latin alumni is pronounced ah-loom-nee, and alumnae is pronounce ah-loom-neye (rhymes with eye,) but they are usually mispronounced the same way in English, as are vertebrae (usually mispronounced as ver-te-bray instead of ver-te breye) and funghi (usually mispronounced fun-guy instead of fun-ghee.)