Creating new patterns for kilt jackets

[AtagahiKC]

Thanks, Steve. I appreciate your input and experience in this matter.

Sorry that I've been absent. I've had a cold, but have been reviewing the various texts that I've purchased on measurements and how they relate to drafting the pattern pieces.

Although I agree that it would be easier to alter a pattern, I want to try to work on how to create the pattern pieces from scratch so I understand the mechanics of how the pattern should be adjusted. I tend to be a little methodical in these things to make sure my brain gets around the entire issue.

I've also purchased a program called Poser to allow us to create a model for show where to measure, etc.

It will take a few weeks to develop a working diagram and measurement form from the books. I will try to post a few intermittent pictures and discussions.

Feel free to challenge what I'm including for measurements. That will be the value of doing this as a group. We can collectively arrive at what is needed.

By private message, I've asked Barb T. specifically about the measurement from the waist to the hip-at-the-widest-point, or fell, measurement (Distance from W to F).

From her book and general discussions, I don't think that this is normally taken as a measurement for a kilt, but I know it is one of the problems I have with jackets and kilts in getting a fell to fall where it should.

I'll post her answer when I get it. I want to try to sync measurements and terms that are helpful for a kilt to the measurements that are taken for the jacket, as much as possible. That way, one doesn't have to take two sets of measurements for the two clothing items.

I will also use the names used in tailoring (as gleaned from the books) to avoid confusion as people use the references. The duplicity of names may be a little confusing, but I'll try to make it clear as possible.

I believe we will need this measurement specifically because for either an Argyle or Prince Charlie, we need that measurement to know how long the tail or skirt of the jacket should be in order to fit properly.

I've also reviewed a lot of pictures and it seems to me that the tail or skirt falling to the fell line is exactly where the kilt jacket is supposed to end.

If anyone has a contrary opinion on this, please let us know. Otherwise, I'm going to proceed to include this measurement as something we need to gather for the project.

[AtagahiKC]

Here are some links that you might find helpful.

1. Tailoring Equipment or Supplies:

Patterns to make your own tailoring tools This is mainly how to make hams and pressing items, including an arm board.

National Hanger Company - Tailor Supplies

B.Black and Sons This site has all the tailoring supplies and equipment you might need, including the elusive jacket fronts and pre-made padding that will shortcut the tailoring process. The usefulness of the jacket fronts or kits remain to be seen for this project, but if you decide to make a normal sport coat or suit, these would be helpful.

Stan's Sewing Supplies This site has quite a few notions and things that might also be of use. They specialize in zippers, which won't be of use in this project, but the leather they sell, might, if you want to make a leather jacket.

Albert Zoll This site also has tailoring supplies (including jacket fronts, etc.), but also includes pattern-making tools.

2. Dress/Tailor Forms

I've not been as successful in locating a tailor dummy supplier with a reasonably priced dummy that is as adjustable as would be needed. The point of the project is to create a coat for those of us who are hard to fit. There don't seem to be forms made in anything but normal sizes and most do not allow for even foreseeable adjustments, such as shoulder position, which would be vital to creating a good fitting jacket.

Therefore, I'm proposing that we create our own. This site explains how to make one out of duct tape. I also saw another site that sells a tape on how to create one out of paper tape which would allow for pins to be put into it. It would be the same basic method, so I'm just including the duct tape site for your reference. You can use either type of tape you think will work best for you.

How to make a custom tailor form Note that this is showing a woman, but the process is the same to make one for a man. You'll need a partner in crime to do it, some duct or paper tape, and some patience.

If you want a professional tailor form, let me know and I'll send you the links. Be forewarned, they cost thousands of dollars and are limited to one size. There are cheaper ones, of course, for normal sizes. There was one made in England that was adjustable, but by the time one imported it, it would be expensive, too. I don't think it went up to larger sizes, either.

We won't need most of this for a few months, but we will need the pattern making tools and measuring tapes soon. Good luck!

[AtagahiKC]

Barb T responded that there is not a measurement made for kilts between the waist and fell.

"A trad kilt is made by measuring the hips at the widest part of the hips and than simply dividing the length (including the 2" rise) by 3 to get the length of the fell."

Thus the normal proportion is that your fell line should be one-third of the total length of a good fitting kilt. However, most of us are doing this project because we don't fit the assumed proportions used in clothing manufacturing.

If you find that kilt jackets don't fall completely to the fell line or surpass it, then this will not work for you. You will need to measure the distance from the waist to the line where you take the hips measurement (the widest part).

I think that this would include running the tape flat along the curve of your backside to that point (rather than a straight line distance from waist to hip), since the cloth of the coat will have to run the longer distance to lie correctly.

If you have a kilt that already fits well and the fell line falls in the right place on you, you could measure the distance on the kilt, laying flat. However, I think that you'd have to deduct the 2" rise on the kilt from the measurement.

Let me know if you try this. It might be helpful to try both methods and see which one seems more accurate to you.

Also, I think that for the purpose of measuring for kilt jackets, we will want to wear a kilt and a shirt or sweater to take the measurements. That way, we will know what the actual measurement is over the clothes that are to be worn.

Likewise, I think I will wear my traditional tank kilt since there is more cloth involved and presumably, greater girth than a casual kilt.

I'm working on the visual models for the measurements. I'll post those when I get them done, but it may not be for a week or so.

[gilmore]

What a clever and inexpensive was to make a customized tailor form.

[Moosedog]

I've made similar patterns but instead of duct taping directly over a t-shirt I first wrap the model's torso (or whatever body part you need--for instance this is a great way to make moccasin patterns) in plastic wrap. The tape adheres to this--I think it allows it to be cut and removed more easily resulting in a slightly more precise fit. It can also be, depending on one's relationship with the model, somewhat more amusing.

Moosedog

[AtagahiKC]

Great tip, Moosedog.

[Dixiecat]

Also, I think that for the purpose of measuring for kilt jackets, we will want to wear a kilt and a shirt or sweater to take the measurements. That way, we will know what the actual measurement is over the clothes that are to be worn.

Don't do this. Clothing could add bulk to places where you need good fit. If your goal is to get something that fits bodies outside the 'norm', then measuring over clothing that would generally not be custom-made will distort your true measurements.

What you should do is take your actual body measurements, then add ease to those measurements. If you want your jacket to fit over bulky garments, then by all means measure the body wearing them, but use the difference of the body measurements and the clothing measurement as the ease to be added to the body measurements.

About the fell line. I don't think you really need to be exact when drafting the pattern. Do the 1/3 fell calculation that Barb gives you as a rough basis (minus the 2" rise). Add a couple inches or so to that measurement and when you try on your first trial jacket, put your kilt on at the same time. Mark where your fell is (or the average fell of those of you with more than one kilt) and use that as your measurement for your jacket. Lol, of course this assumes that your fell is in the right place, kinda like a chicken and egg thing now....

You could measure the kilt flat, but that assumes the person wearing it is wearing it at the waist that you used for your jacket. I know dancers that wear their kilts on their hip. Trying on insures both your jacket and kilt agree.

[AtagahiKC]

I'm taking a break on this through the holidays. We'll resume where we left off after New Year's Day.

Merry Christmas, Happy Chanukah and Happy New Year!

[AtagahiKC]

In case someone wants to request it for Christmas, the book I settled on for patternmaking in general is "How to Make Sewing Patterns" by Donald H. McCunn, $24.95.

How to Make Sewing Patterns on Amazon

After reviewing all the books suggested and figuring out what will be the most helpful, yet something we can all understand and replicate, this book stood out from the rest.

This is not a tailoring book. This book teaches how to take measurements and then how to make master patterns (in women's clothing, it would be called a sloper), from which you can adapt to make just about any pattern or adapt commercial patterns.

While the book is intended for women, it includes good instructions on how to make the master pattern for men, as well as how to alter it for various types of men's clothing. Most of the other patternmaking books ignored men.

Aside from its simplicity, it is also the most versatile of the approaches. I think that once we have our master patterns, making the various jackets will be easier and make the tailoring process less complex.

You can also use it to alter the commercial patterns for kilt jackets, should you wish to do that.

In contrast, the tailor patterns rely on alterations and padding to fit the pattern to the man. We'll still do some of that, but it won't be as large a task.

You can use the master pattern to make shirts or coats, so it has value beyond this project. While we won't do the slacks here, it does include instructions for making a master pattern for that, as well.

I can't copy the pages or quote it wholesale, so you will need to get the book.

[AtagahiKC]

Thanks for the post, Dixiecat.

I'm sorry for the delay in this project. I'm continuing to work on this, but it is taking a back seat for the foreseeable future. My father has terminal cancer. I'm also interviewing for jobs. Between the two, there isn't a lot of time at the moment.

Sorry for the inconvenience to everyone. Continue on in my absence, if you wish. I'll work on the pattern and post again when I get to a substantive point.