Help with white tie

[Gauranga]

Whatever the occasion, it’s always good to put some effort into your appearance. This can help show your hosts and companions that you were looking forward to spending time with them, and may help you feel a little special.

Dressy clothes can be expensive, so if you’re on a budget it’s good to have some items that are very versatile. For women, the little black dress is a great staple, and for men a dark suit can get you through many occasions.

Besides having a good wardrobe, another challenge can be interpreting suitable attire based on the invitation, as times and expectations are changing when it comes to dressing up. So here are a few guidelines and suggestions to help you pick the right attire.

White Tie
It is very rare to be invited to a White Tie event, unless it is a diplomatic event. For a White Tie event, men should wear a white bow tie, white waistcoat and black jacket with tails. Women should wear an elegant floor-length evening gown, gloves and jewelry. Historically “Formal” meant White Tie, but nowadays Formal generally refers to Black Tie.

Black Tie
For women, this historically would have required a long dress, but today a short dress or evening suit may do. For men, this requires a tuxedo. A tuxedo should be worn with a tuxedo shirt with matching studs and cufflinks, a bowtie (preferably hand-tied), patent leather shoes, and either a cummerbund or a waistcoat (never both). If you wear a cummerbund, it should be worn with the pleats facing up.

Black Tie Optional
For Black Tie Optional, you’ll have a little more selection in what you wear. You may simply dress the same as you would for a Black Tie event, or women may also wear dressy separates and men may wear a dark suit and tie.

Creative Black Tie
Creative Black Tie allows you to interpret Black Tie with a modern flair. Women may still wear a cocktail dress or gown, or evening suit, and men may wear a tux but with a bolo tie, black shirt without a tie, or something more daring but in keeping with the theme.


Excerpt from "Mr. Manners Quick and Dirty Tips for a More Polite Life"

I hope this helps. I'm sure you can take this and apply it to wearing a kilt to your event.

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

Creative Black Tie
Creative Black Tie allows you to interpret Black Tie with a modern flair. Women may still wear a cocktail dress or gown, or evening suit, and men may wear a tux but with a bolo tie, black shirt without a tie, or something more daring but in keeping with the theme.


Excerpt from "Mr. Manners Quick and Dirty Tips for a More Polite Life"

I somehow doubt that Mr. and Mrs. Manners would accept an invitation that stated--Dress: Creative Black Tie.

[davedove]

White Tie
It is very rare to be invited to a White Tie event, unless it is a diplomatic event. For a White Tie event, men should wear a white bow tie, white waistcoat and black jacket with tails. Women should wear an elegant floor-length evening gown, gloves and jewelry. Historically “Formal” meant White Tie, but nowadays Formal generally refers to Black Tie.

Black Tie
For women, this historically would have required a long dress, but today a short dress or evening suit may do. For men, this requires a tuxedo. A tuxedo should be worn with a tuxedo shirt with matching studs and cufflinks, a bowtie (preferably hand-tied), patent leather shoes, and either a cummerbund or a waistcoat (never both). If you wear a cummerbund, it should be worn with the pleats facing up.

Black Tie Optional
For Black Tie Optional, you’ll have a little more selection in what you wear. You may simply dress the same as you would for a Black Tie event, or women may also wear dressy separates and men may wear a dark suit and tie.

Creative Black Tie
Creative Black Tie allows you to interpret Black Tie with a modern flair. Women may still wear a cocktail dress or gown, or evening suit, and men may wear a tux but with a bolo tie, black shirt without a tie, or something more daring but in keeping with the theme.

I have never been to a white tie event and probably never will be. In fact, I can say that I have never been to an event that was strictly black tie.

Probably the events that I have attended would probably be classified as Creative Black Tie Optional, things like formal nights on cruises and such. Tuxedos are fine to wear to the event, but certainly not required, and you don't have to follow the strict dress code.

[The Barry]

Since I'm not a man of international intrigue, I will most likely never go to a true white tie event. That being said, I think that, in today's fashion, there is more wiggle room in black tie dress than there was say, 50 years ago.

As far as "blending in" is concerned, let's think about this. Unless it's a completely Scottish affair (rare here in the states, especially in Washington), you aren't going to "blend in" with a kilt on. Don't delude yourself, people are going to notice the pleats, that's what they're there for.

I don't agree that you shouldn't be noticed for your clothing. Maybe it's my vanity, maybe I'm just smooth and good looking. I could always wear the normal, black tie, white shirt, generic tux; or I could add some slight touches and make a couple of choices to really make my black tie outfit my own.

For instance, when I'm being held down by the pants-man, my tux is double breasted. I wear it with a black shirt with hidden buttons, and an off white tie and waistcoat. I don't care what anybody says, it's truly stunning, and some serious clothing snobs have given me my props when in this attire at a black tie event with a bunch of penguins.

So let us take this into account with a kilt. Go ahead, throw away that white shirt if you don't like it. Do you have a color in your tartan that needs to be emphasized? Maybe your tartan has black stripes in it, try a black shirt. Experiment with tie color. It's clothing, go ahead and make a statement. I promise, if you wear a not-white shirt with a kilt to a black tie event, nobody is going to mock you for your shirt. They are going to envy you for the way a kilt looks on a confident man who knows how to dress. By the way, a black shirt under a black waistcoat makes women weak in the knees! I kid you not.

And as far a brouges are concerned, maybe it's true that they aren't for white tie events, but I've worn them and seen them worn at black tie evens often. Of course you'd wear brouges, they're a Scottish dress shoe!

Just my two cents, not trying to ruffle feathers, just putting out some options based on personal experience.

[Gauranga]

This is what Wikipedia has to say about wearing the Scottish National Dress to a white tie event:

Scottish Highland dress

As a specific example of national dress, Scottish Highland dress may also be worn at white tie events.

The traditional white tie version of Highland dress consists of:

* Black formal kilt jacket - the Prince Charlie coatee, Montrose doublet, Sheriffmuir doublet, Kenmore doublet or regulation doublet is suitable
* Black barathea (or velvet, with a velvet doublet) or white piqué waistcoat; no waistcoat is worn with the Kenmore doublet
* Kilt
* White piqué shirt with white studs and cufflinks
* White piqué bow tie with the coatee or regulation doublet; white lace jabot with the other doublets
* Black Ghillie brogues; black buckle brogues ("Mary Janes") may be worn with the Montrose, Sheriffmuir, or Kenmore doublet
* Tartan or red and white, red and black or blue and white diced kilt hose
* Flashes
* Sporran - formal type with a silver-mounted cantle-top and fur pouch or a full fur and animal mask type

[davedove]

You know, in none of these lists do I ever see the fly plaid mentioned. Now, if I want to wear a plaid, I'm going to wear one. However, it would be good to know what is "proper".

[McClef]

Nobody can doubt your experience M.O.R. But as has been pointed out, ANY national dress option is going to make you look different to those dressed in white tie and tails. It may actually serve to open conversations where you may then demonstrate your wit, charm, and intellect.

However I don't think this is the point of this particular thread - it is to do with graduation - a white tie (as at St Andrews) doesn't come with the full list of other do's and don'ts. Nobody will be wearing a graduation gown with/without mortar board and the hood of their degree at a diplomatic ball.

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

Nobody can doubt your experience M.O.R. But as has been pointed out, ANY national dress option is going to make you look different to those dressed in white tie and tails. It may actually serve to open conversations where you may then demonstrate your wit, charm, and intellect.

Forget "National dress options"-- outside of a movie I've never seen someone in a dashiki at a white tie event. And, frankly, white tie looks pretty much the same from the waist up no matter what you're wearing.

However I don't think this is the point of this particular thread - it is to do with graduation - a white tie (as at St Andrews) doesn't come with the full list of other do's and don'ts. Nobody will be wearing a graduation gown with/without mortar board and the hood of their degree at a diplomatic ball.

The question was about what to wear when performing at a musical recital, not a graduation ceremony. That said, white tie is still white tie. Others performing at the recital will be in traditional white tie, not some interpretive version that asserts their right to clothe themselves with total disregard for the conventions of proper dress. In short it is about conforming so that the "costume" of the performer does nothing to detract from the artistry of the performance. It is the difference between the Music Hall and the Recital Hall.

[McClef]

Forget "National dress options"-- outside of a movie I've never seen someone in a dashiki at a white tie event. And, frankly, white tie looks pretty much the same from the waist up no matter what you're wearing.

I cannot forget it because it is officially allowed for and only last week BBC4 showed a repeat of the state visit of the President of Ghana and he wore his native dress at the state dinner. It looked like a dashiki type thing to me and he walked into the dinner side by side with Her Majesty - don't think she was making a movie. I realise that you don't get BBC4 over there but simply to make the point that just because you haven't seen something doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

As to the second sentence: Does it? What of all those nice shiny studs on a Montrose or (dare I say it a PC) and the Jabot is somewhat frillier and more noticeable and bigger than a white bow tie.

So even seated there is a difference and when stood the below the waist dissimilarity becomes all the more noticeable.

Even at black tie events it is the same noticeable difference - it doesn't melt into oblivion because of the higher level of formality expected at a white tie.

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

I cannot forget it because it is officially allowed for and only last week BBC4 showed a repeat of the state visit of the President of Ghana and he wore his native dress at the state dinner. It looked like a dashiki type thing to me and he walked into the dinner side by side with Her Majesty - don't think she was making a movie. I realise that you don't get BBC4 over there but simply to make the point that just because you haven't seen something doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

Actually, I do get BBC 4, although I rarely bother to watch the Beeb or any other channel for that matter. I much prefer to be out and about and in the thick of things.

There is a world of difference between a state banquet, a musical recital, and the new year's ball in Vienna. Of course a visiting head of state would be expected to wear his national mode of dress. For instance: When Her Majesty visited Japan a few years ago, she didn't wear a kimono to the state banquet. At least not that I noticed on BBC 4.

I agree that just because I haven't seen something doesn't mean it doesn't happen. I've seen lots of suggestions, on this and other threads, about how to dress that are, in my opinion, mind-numbing in their lack of style and good taste. Now I haven't actually seen anybody dressed as was suggested, but I'm sure that doesn't mean that it doesn't happen.

If one is required to wear white tie (as opposed to choosing to wear white tie) then one has to follow the rules. All of 'em.

You have an awesome motorcycle. And to ride it, you have to follow certain rules. One of those rules requires you to wear a helmet. Now you may prefer wearing one of those WWI German army spiked helmets, but if you do there will probably be some undesirable consequences. To be sure, you will attract a lot of attention, and probably receive some favourable comments regarding your picklehaube. But this attention will do nothing to mitigate the unfavourable consequence of your act. You will get a ticket, you may get banned.

A gentleman in highland attire, following all the rules, will hardly rate a second glance at a formal function. A guy dressed up like he's just stepped off the lid of a shortbread tin, or is on his way to audition for the second lead in a Christmas pantomime will, however, attract a lot of attention. For all the wrong reasons. And he will probably become the unwitting victim of the perfect crime.

And what is that perfect crime? Ridicule.