Measurements

[Jako Dar]

Good points all around. Thank you so far for some really great discussion. Looks like I will need to contact my kilt maker and have a discussion . . .

[Chef]

Looks like I will need to contact my kilt maker and have a discussion . . .

Now you have the idea.

[kmaclea]

So, I have a kilt that was made to my measurements and fits well.

On the inside label it says:

Individually Tailored
Waist 36", Hip 42"
Length 21.5" + 2"

Now, I have looked for instance at Vintage Kilts, and seen kilts available such as this one:

10 Anc. Cameron 36 x 23.5

Now, the 36 is obviously the same.

Two questions:
1. Is 21.5" + 2" the same as the 23.5" they are measuring, or would it be 21.5" that I'm looking for?

2. In that vein, they don't note the Hip measurement. Is this typical? Can one measure the hip measurement of a kilt already made so you can compare it? Or you just have to take your chances on a used kilt like this?

Any help appreciated!

Kyle=

[The Wizard of BC]

kmaclea,

What you are seeing are two examples of totally different measuring systems. In the first you see a set of measurements from a Traditional Style Kiltmaker.
The 36" is the circumference around the waist at the "Natural Waist" or just under the ribcage.
The 42" is the hip or seat. It is a circumference around the widest part of the Hips and Butt.
The 21.5" is the length of the kilt from the bottom of the hem up to the center of the top straps which are cinched into the Natural Waist.
The +2" is the Rise. This is defined as the area above the top straps and tapered Fell that flares back out and rides up to the ribs. ( Actually "flares out" is not correct verbage but it gets the point across in just a few words.)
If you add the 21.5" and the 2" you get 23.5" which is the total length from bottom of hem to top of waistband.

The other set of measurements can be anything.
The 36" can mean at the center of the top strap or at the top of the waistband, or something totally different.
And again, the 23.5" can mean the drop without Rise or total length of kilt.
The problem is that it just doesn't specify.
You will also note that Hip is missing. This could mean that the person listing the kilt does not know the measurement or may not even know it is important, or you may be looking at a ready made kilt that uses a "standard" ratio of Waist to Hip.

The best advice any kiltmaker can give someone asking about "Proper" measurements is:

FOLLOW THE INSTRUCTIONS GIVEN BY THE PERSON WHO WILL ACTUALLY BE MAKING THE KILT!!!!!!!

note: Please do not use my measuring system when talking to a Traditional Kiltmaker. (They will just look at you funny and politely ask you to stand still while they call an ambulance for you.)

[kmaclea]

Thanks for the enlightenment, Wizard!

It sounds like, then, that the only way to establish what any of these people advertizing kilts are *really* selling is to ask them to detail how they measure.

To me, it would be *nice* to have a set of measurements that at least a Traditional Style kiltmaker could understand and that within that Traditional context we could both understand and agree on. Although from what you're saying, it sounds like not even that is guaranteed unless we actually confirm the measurement system used.

As for the non-Traditional kilts, I have heard people on X-Marks talk about the very different measuring required and had anticipated that for these styles I should definitely be measured in person if I can be. I was just hoping the Traditional would be a little easier! And maybe it is a *little* easier, but it sounds like even then the way is somewhat fraught with peril!

Ah, well, I can always take my chances if the measurements sound "close enough" too, I suppose!

Thanks again, Wizard!

Kyle=

[The Wizard of BC]

kmaclea,

The thing you have to understand is where the kilt you are looking at was designed to fit. Then you need to know where you want your kilt to fit.

The definitions we throw around about "Waist" varies with kiltmaker and kilt wearer.

This becomes very evident when a person who wishes to wear his kilt at Mid or Low Rise gets a kilt from a maker who uses Traditional methods.

In general, a Traditional Kiltmaker determines the length of the Fell (or the area in the back of the kilt where the pleats are sewn down and tapered) by making that length 1/3 of the Drop (Without the Rise). If the kilt is then worn lower, the Fell is far too long, and will cause the back of the kilt to hang in waves like a stage curtain.

And again, in general, a kilt that is made by a Traditional Kiltmaker, when worn lower, will develop an unsightly pucker or fold in the apron, just under the belt. This is because human anatomy dictates that a garment worn low will have the waistband higher in the back than in the front. (the more of a belly you have the more this is true) Traditional Kilts are the same length front and back and that excess fabric has to go somewhere.

[kmaclea]

Makes sense! Thanks!

K=