Clan Fraser Septs?

[macwilkin]

Scotweb's tartan search usually yields a nice listing of septs associated with clan tartans at the bottom of the list of tartans, as below for the Fraser clan:

http://www.scotweb.co.uk/tartan/Fras...rchterm=fraser

I have found it a useful first search tool, although I cannot vouch for either its accuracy or completeness.

See the aforementioned web site of the Fraser Chief, Lady Saltoun, in my previous post. The Chief is the final authority when it comes to affiliated names.

T.

[Stratherrick]

Cajun

...but remember this list is directly from the Chief, who is the final authority on such matters.

Remember, us Lovat Frasers don't all recognise Lady Saltoun, bless 'er cotton socks, as clan chief. I had a good discussion about this in the Fraser heartlands outside Inverness just recently. Not all folks run with your take on things, whatever the Lord Lyon might say to the contrary!

Cheers

Bruce

[macwilkin]

Cajun




Remember, us Lovat Frasers don't all recognise Lady Saltoun, bless 'er cotton socks, as clan chief. I had a good discussion about this in the Fraser heartlands outside Inverness just recently. Not all folks run with your take on things, whatever the Lord Lyon might say to the contrary!

Cheers

Bruce

Bruce,

I never claimed to be the be-all, end-all, but in the case of who is and who isn't a clansman, the Chief traditionally makes that decision, which goes back long before Lord Lyon (which btw, I never mentioned in my posts).

But, if you'll read Lady Saltoun's web site, you'll notice that she does address the whole "two chiefs" issue:

http://www.fraserchief.co.uk/twochiefs.html

She also mentions the "boll o' meal" Frasers here as well (ie Frasers by allegiance).

So, Bruce -- would you care to expound on why you do not recognise Lady Saltoun -- I honestly don't have a dog in the hunt, as we only have one Chief in the Cummings.

Regards,

Todd

[Stratherrick]

Cajun

Apologies, I didn't mean to offend.

Re the Fraser chief problem, as Lady Saltoun had only daughters, one could say her line has failed. That would mean a bun fight as to who is the chief, with Lord Lovat a strong contender!

Okay, it ain't as easy as that as the Saltouns say history is on their side as, of the main two Fraser knight brothers fighting at Bannockburn (1314), Alex and Simon, their progenitor, Alex, was the oldest.

So, do you run with antiquity or modern stances, be my guest!

Cheers

Bruce

[gilmore]

Cajun

...
Re the Fraser chief problem, as Lady Saltoun had only daughters, one could say her line has failed. ...

How?

Chiefships of clans can be held by women, and passed through them to their daughters, if they have no sons. This has occurred many times in history, and there are several other chiefs presently who are women. Lady Saulton's immediate line would fail only if she no children at all. I think I remember reading that Fraser of Lovat is in remainder to the chiefship of the name, but as noted, Lady S has children..


Unlike most English heritable entitlements, many, if not most, Scots peerages can also be inherited by and from women.

[sirdaniel1975]

How?

Chiefships of clans can be held by women, and passed through them to their daughters, if they have no sons. This has occurred many times in history, and there are several other chiefs presently who are women. Lady Saulton's immediate line would fail only if she no children at all. I think I remember reading that Fraser of Lovat is in remainder to the chiefship of the name, but as noted, Lady S has children..


Unlike most English heritable entitlements, many, if not most, Scots peerages can also be inherited by and from women.

Gilmore is absolutely right. I've read about this too. I think it might have been the MacLeod's of Lewis. At least the story I remember reading. If I have the right clan, I think she had to legally change her name to MacLeod. Then again, I might have the wrong clan. I'm going off memory.

[gilmore]

Gilmore is absolutely right. I've read about this too. I think it might have been the MacLeod's of Lewis. At least the story I remember reading. If I have the right clan, I think she had to legally change her name to MacLeod. ....

I think it's that when women become chief of a clan----actually chief of the name---they keep their maiden name, or revert to it if married and using their husband's name, or take de novo if they were born with a surname other than the clan name.