Hobson's choice

[DWFII]

I like this thread.

Leather is great, and I agree with DWFII and georgeblack. If you oppose leather, you should oppose pleather too.

I think that maybe part of the problem is the way we deliberately fool ourselves by using words that camouflage reality.

For instance, some years ago, there was an advertisement that appeared now and again on television for a "genuine faux leather" handbag. When you listened to the commercial the words that stuck out at you were "genuine" and "leather." The temptation was almost too great to resist not to immediately send the $9.95 (+S&H) ...if only to stockpile Christmas gifts eleven months in advance.

I truth, there is no such thing as "Vegan" leather. Semantically, it is an attempt to mislead...to disguise a frozen puddle of petro-chemicals as a product that is considered a luxury item around the world. Similarly, there is no such thing as "faux fur." Just fuzzy petro-chemicals.

For the record..."faux" just means fake--beware of what you are getting, caveat emptor, things aren't as they appear, lower your expectations, and "see ya later, sucka!!"

And if we are honest, even words such as Pleather and Naugahyde fall into the same category, although it is an experience such as may not come twice in a lifetime to stalk the wild nauga in the lonely and remote fastnesses in which it abides.

[Galician]

One thing which this thread does is to remind me of a sweater I was given as a child, back in the early days of synthetic fabrics. The label read " 100% Virgin Acrylic."

I don't consider myself a vegan, but part of the impetus toward using "faux" leather by such a person would be an attempt to respect the living creatures who are farmed (sometimes[?] in pretty brutal ways) to provide fur for the fashion industry. I do refuse to wear any kind of furry (even "faux") sporran for this reason.

[Carolina Kiltman]

And if we are honest, even words such as Pleather and Naugahyde fall into the same category, although it is an experience such as may not come twice in a lifetime to stalk the wild nauga in the lonely and remote fastnesses in which it abides.

An experience right up there with stalking the wild haggis in the remoter reaches of MULL (This is the brindled haggis, not to be confused with the hairy haggis of the mainland.)

The worst thing we can do is to place those personal desires in the same catagory as religons and start a rant against someone who doesn't agree with our point of view. That said my final comment is to each his (or her) own.

Amen, brother!

[Howard Clark]

We'd all be better off if we were more connected to the earth and the cycle of life. The concept of stewardship seems to have been largely forgotten of late.

I try not to wear synthetic fibers at all. But there are a few things they are very good at.

[Casey_in_Carolina]

And if we are honest, even words such as Pleather and Naugahyde fall into the same category, although it is an experience such as may not come twice in a lifetime to stalk the wild nauga in the lonely and remote fastnesses in which it abides.

I remember a great big nauguhyde love seat I had in college. We always used to joke about all the little Naugies that had to give up their lives just so that we might have a place to sit while we watched TV

Casey

[FreakPower70]

I am vegetarian and would like to bring my own view point to the table of discussion. I agree with the point about stewardship, animals in the modern world have become in large products, many industries that involve animals care little for there welfare. I am not entriely opposed to wool if the sheep are treated kindly but in many wool industries today that is not the case.

Also to mention while fake leathers may not be great for the enviroment sometimes the tanning of leather is not great for it either. Also the fur industry does horrible, horrible things to animals. I don't mean to sound rude, but I doubt when the minks were killed for a jacket or the rahkoon for a sporran that all the parts of the animal were used, I don't think alot of people are having mink or rahkoon for there next meal.

In my mind, vegetarians and vegans wish to live in harmony with the world aswell, we just take a fraternal viewpoint concerning animals and not a superiority one.

Lastly I do not think vegetarians or vegans are trying to make an attack on this particular tradition, we just want to enjoy our heritage (or just enjoy a good kilt) without sacrificing our values. Both fake and real leather have there ups and there downs.

[DWFII]

Gin ye shun the soutar ye'll wear the glaur. Ye canna sell the cou and sup the milk.

[bowser]

I am sure this makes me old before my time, but I love this thread.
As far as I am concerned, shirts are made from cotton or linen, suits are made from wool or linen, socks are made from wool, trousers are cotton linen or wool, boots and shoes are leather along with jackets and gloves, wax cotton does for my waterproof jackets, wool for my sweaters,

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

I don't mean to sound rude, but I doubt when the minks were killed for a jacket or the rahkoon for a sporran that all the parts of the animal were used, I don't think alot of people are having mink or rahkoon for there next meal.

I once had a summer job working at a mink ranch. Quite simply the critters were bred for their pelts, and when it was harvest time they were killed, then skinned. The hides were carefully set aside, and the dead (now naked) mink was sold off as pet food. The droppings from the mink cages were sold as fertilizer, and virtually nothing was wasted.

So, you and I have probably never eaten mink, but I'll bet your cat or dog has...

[Tetley]

Strangely enough, I asked one of my colleagues at work, a long time committed vegan, about this and similar matters. His reply was that he has no hang up about leather or wool but in the way that they are produced and the cruelty that goes with it.

He gave an example about fur saying that if he came across a small wild animal that had been killed by a car, he has no hesitation is taking the carcass, skinning it, using the meat and bones as food for his dogs and giving the skin to people he knows that make articles for sale out of leather and fur.

His point, and the point of a lot of his vegan friends is that it is how the animals are treated and killed that makes him vegan.

I then asked him about his vegan thoughts about his carbon footprint, synthetic materials and the environmental problems caused by them and his reply to this what that that he and vegans like him have talked about this for years without coming up with a satisfactory solution. Ideally he'd like to do away with the lot, but in today's society, this just isn't a viable thing to do.

I should note that he goes out of his way to use fair trade products since he feels that his vegan beliefs mean that anything produced cruelly should be avoided. He considers child labour on the tea plantations of India, for example, cruel and so avoids those tea companies that work this way.

I have to say that I respect his way of life totally, his has spent a lot of time thinking about his position. I disagree with him in a number of cases such as his reasons for decrying the horse riding and racing industries but his, at least, is not a knee jerk reaction to myth or incomplete facts and that's what I respect about his position.

Mark