True waist, different maker...

[Jerry]

One other thing. I believe Jerry's kilts at Stillwater are sized at the tightest hole in the straps, where other kiltmaker's are sized at the middle hole. Thus a Stillwater size 40 should adjust from 40 to 42 inches A kilt from another kiltmaker , size 40, will adjust from 39 to 41 inches.

[KiltedPilot]

Some observations from my personal journey with measurement.

It occurs to me that the physics of hanging a kilt on a, say, typical 44" waist is quite different on a 34" waist. There are several factors.

First, the guy with a 34" waist is likely to have some hips -- that is hips wider than stomach, so there is something for the kilt to hang from. On a 44" waist the stomach is likely to be wider than the hips, and so the kilt needs to be clamped to the stomach to stay up. Clamping implies some pressure, and this will reduce the waist size, or rather a smaller waist is required to ensure sufficient clamping pressure (else the kilt must be cinched by a belt).

I used to be 44"-46" range, and found that a kilt purchased at my precise relaxed waist measurement would just fall off as soon as I moved. I needed a bit of clamping pressure to keep it in place. An issue here is that a 34" waist varies a lot less as the body moves than for a 44" wearer.

The 44" waist is associated with a fair bit of pliable fat around the stomach. When I was gaining weight, the fat was denser, and needed less clamping force. When I was losing weight, the fat was less dense, and needed a lot of clamping force. This really foxed me when measuring up.

Another issue is that stomach fat droops. Women have a more extreme version of the same problem when measuring for a bra size. The bra size is based on how far the breasts protrude from the chest, yet for many women the breasts droop. For women, bras reshape the breasts to a more appealing shape, quite different from the natural hang. In a similar, but less dramatic, way the kilt acts somewhat like a corset, reshaping the stomach fat on a large guy. So the size required is the size of the reshaped fat.

Thus I find measuring a kilt, as a larger waisted male, to be very complex. I've discovered a few tricks that work for me. First, I measure my stomach lying on my back, completely relaxed. I don't have to mentally decide how relaxed I am being in my stature, nor worry about my podge drooping uncharacteristically. Second, I look at my pants. I ignore the stated size, as it's usually wrong, but measure the actual size of the pants to get an idea of what degree of clamping I find necessary to keep my pants from falling down. If I know a 44" (actual size) pair of pants falls off me, then why shouldn't a 44" waist kilt fall off me also. (This is imprecise as the waist can be a different points, but can still provide useful information)

All this has tended to mean that I've personally bought kilts an inch or two smaller than a simple 'let it all hang out' waist measurement would imply. However, as I am now about 38", this effect seems to be declining.

Your mileage might vary.

KP

[Ozman1944]

For myself, I found that when I measured 'true waist',(40") my first Kilt was too big(?), but if I 'sucked it in'(38") then measured, the subsequent kilts fit just fine. So, go figure.

[Panache]

I have owned no less than 6 kilts from Stillwater (3 Heavyweights and 3 Standards) and each one has fit me very well. I measured myself about 2 inches above my navel and that corresponded with the right size Stillwater kilt. I did receieve one that was accidentally 2" too long (but my lovely with hemmed it and it is fine now).

I think that KiltedPilot may be on to something regarding body types. Jerry's kilts are sold "off the rack" for a standardized shape, if you are different than that shape then you might have to make some adjustments in the size you order.

Cheers

Jamie

[GDub]

Thanks to all who replied, and especially for the good suggestions. I realize the "off the peg" kilts are just that, but hey, I now know my SWK, AK and UK sizes! My main reason for asking is that my next kilt will more than likely be a semi-trad from USAK and for all the obvious reasons I want the thing to fit....

Sláinte

[staticsan]

Always measure your waist at the place where the fasteners will sit on your body.

If you are ordering a Traditional rise Kilt measure just under the ribs at the side and about two inches above the naval in the front.

If you are ordering a Mid Rise Kilt measure just above the hipbones at the side and about the naval in front.

If you are ordering a Low Rise Kilt measure over and outside of the hip bones.

...

Never assume that every kilt will fit in the same place.

Every kilt-maker needs this information on their ordering page!

Wade.

[staticsan]

First, the guy with a 34" waist is likely to have some hips -- that is hips wider than stomach, so there is something for the kilt to hang from.

I concur. I'm a 34-36" waist and the kilt likes to hang from my hips. This is higher than my jeans, but lower than the "traditional" location.

Wade.

[auld argonian]

Quoth KiltedPilot:

"Another issue is that stomach fat droops. Women have a more extreme version of the same problem when measuring for a bra size. The bra size is based on how far the breasts protrude from the chest, yet for many women the breasts droop. For women, bras reshape the breasts to a more appealing shape, quite different from the natural hang. In a similar, but less dramatic, way the kilt acts somewhat like a corset, reshaping the stomach fat on a large guy. So the size required is the size of the reshaped fat."

,,,so yer sayin' that a brasierre and a kilt are basically the same thing...?

Seriously, I've got to think that there has to be a better way to measure things but it may take more dimensions into account. Some kiltmakers ask for your height as well as the waist, hips and length so that they can judge the proportions better...one asks for you to categorize your "build"...tall and thin, short and stout, etc. If you think about it, the position of any one individuals waist relative to his hips relative to his knees is going to be different than anybody else's. The position of the navel may be at a different level than the narrowest part of the waist. It's part of the miracle of the kilt that so many of them fit so well given that the only dimensions asked for are waist, hips and length.

Best

AA

[ForresterModern]

I too suffer from the dilemma of just exactly what size I am. My first custom kilt from (let's just call them kiltmaker A) was a machine made in my family tartan and made to the measurements as described in their website ordering sheet (true waist of 48 inches), and discussed by phone at length with the guy who would actually make the kilt. It arrived a couple months later fitting nearly perfect, but only with all the buckles pulled up snug at their tightest position. It has since loosened up a wee bit and now hangs a bit loose (or I lost a couple pounds--who knows). My second two kilts were also custom machine made but by a different kiltmaker (lets call him B) to essentially the same measurements as the first (48 inch waist), as his measurement technique was similar to A's. These two kilts arrived entirely too large, by at least two inches, and had to be altered locally at my cost (the kilt maker just kind of shrugged thier shoulders (as best as can be done over the internet) and said that the kilts were made to my measurements and I must have measured wrong. Anyway, after moving the buckles they now fit better but still are marginally loose at thier tightest strap settings (now at a 46 waist after adjustment). Next kilt from kiltmaker C I got smart and shortened my measurements to 46 inches waist, and this one fits to a T-----spot on. Most recent custom machine sewn kilt was from maker B again (heck of a sale) and so I gave them a waist size of 45 inches, and lo and behold it comes with a fit that is nigh on perfect---maybe a smidge big but well within the adjustment range of the straps.

Moral of the story is that, yes, Emily, different kiltmakers do measure things differently, sometimes significantly. My best suggestion is find one or two you really like, figure out what size you are to them, and then let them do all your work for you so you get fairly consistent results. I say that also realizing that there are so many kiltmakers out there, and so many good deals and different products that my advice is likely to work for only the minority of us kiltwearers (like Riverkilt---a dedicated Kathy Lare fan) who can afford to do such.

My bit of commiseration. Good news is that my likely next kilt will almost certainly be a very special one, of custom made Allen 1996 tartan sewn up by none other than our own Barb Tewksbury, the maestro herself, who I feel certain will help me get it right the first time. Waiting on the fabric now, then my time in Barb's que-----talk about a jones.