Dis ony o youse ken the Scots leid?

**Phil** · 27th October 08, 08:47 AM

This topic comes up from time to time and always there is the same confusion between a Scottish accent and the distinct nature of the Scots language. Anyone who has tried to read Burns' poetry will quickly realise that there is a great deal more to the language than simply representing the phonetics of speech - the "braw bricht moonlit nicht" sort of thing. That merely indicates how a Scots person might say the English words "brave bright moonlit night and has no more linguistic meaning than would the difference between a southern drawl from Alabama and the long vowels of a Bostonian. Scots as a language is mostly spoken as a mixture of words along with English and, as a matter of courtesy, most would refrain from using purely Scots words when conversing with a non-native to avoid misunderstanding. Scots and English actually share the same Anglo-Saxon dialects originating around the northern half of England and this northern English language spread north into Scotland after the Norman conquest, replacing the native Gaelic south of the Highlands. There have, of course, been many developments since then including the influence of other languages such as French. Ashet is a Scots word meaning a dish and is derived from the French assiette (a plate). Over the years English speakers in the south of England have modified their speech and words such as "stane" in Scots and "stone" in English are simple examples of this where Scots has retained the earlier "a" pronunciation whereas English has modified this to "o". Where differences still exist is in the grammar of the two languages. Even although Scots may speak perfect English they will construct sentences slightly differently. "I have went to the shop" is correct in Scots but in English would be "I have gone ....". Another glaring difference is the "ch" in loch which no Englishman seems capable of pronouncing other than as "ck" in lock although I have never found them to have the same difficulty when pronouncing the composer Bach which never comes out as "Back".

**O'Callaghan** · 27th October 08, 10:26 AM

In Ulster you have additional confusion (or perhaps it is only me who is confused) as to which labels are attached to the Ulster versions of Scots and of Scots Gaelic. I think they may have both been referred to in that bill, but I'm not sure which one was which!

As to standard English, we are conversing in it, but there's no agreement as to what it is. One thing it is not is the London dialect of English. What is defined as Standard English in the UK appears to be something spoken around Oxford, but even that has me puzzled, as it is precisely there that the 'home counties' dialect gives way to both the 'midlands' dialect and the 'west country' dialect. In the Oxfordshire town where my wife came from all three were spoken by different people, although perhaps many had moved there from somewhere else. Probably there actually is nowhere in England where there are any real people that actually speak Standard English. As for defining Standard English as something spoken somewhere in America, I simply find that idea utterly ludicrous, although American linguists do so, and somehow manage to do it with a straight face.

Probably the only agreed definition of Standard English is that is not Scots, LOL!

**Darkislander** · 27th October 08, 04:16 PM

You do know of course that P1M is playing with you all as he is actually American !

**sathor** · 27th October 08, 05:01 PM

Originally Posted by MacMillan of Rathdown

You see, Hector, just as "clothes make the man"-- look at how little effect naked people have had on the course of history-- so does the written word. No mater how fine or noble the intent or idea, if not clearly presented it will be overlooked, or dismissed. Worse, it could be ridiculed.

uh, what about Caligula? (shudder)

**highlander_Daz** · 28th October 08, 10:46 AM

As Ive mentioned before, the way people speak in Scotland, varies a great deal, Burns (brilliant) Lowland writings bear little relation to how folk in Aberdeen or Perth, speak or spoke, so its hard to pin down a "Scottish accent" which is why so many filmakers get it so wrong. Johnny Depp did an admirable job in "finding neverland" he only strays on a couple of occasions. Burns' writings are so unique as they have trapped forever the lowland / western way of speaking, the powerful Glasgow accent has crept further and further outwards and affected how many people speak, iving many people the impression that the Glasgow accent (despite having significant variations in itself) is how people across the whole of Scotland speak.