Gordon Highlander Dirk

[Dukeof Kircaldy]

OK, I picked up this Grodon Highlader Dirk on eBay a couple of weeks back

I'm not mentioning the price or really wanting congratulations on winning it (although that's appreciated). My question is whether this is a real Gordon Highlander's Dirk or a repro. The person who sold it said it was a repro, but I don't see any maker's marks or "India" or "China" stamped on it in the expected places.






Also, there is a picture of a similar dirk on page 46 in James D. Forman's The Scottish Dirk (Museum Restoration Service--Historical Arms Series No. 26, 1991).



The difference I can see between the one I have and the one in the book is that the one in the book has battle honours inscribed on the blade.

The sheath on mine is made out of a suede material.

I reckon someone here should have the knowse to figure out whether this is really a repro or the real deal.

For the rest of you: enjoy the pics!




I'm not selling it whatever the case even if I would make a packet if this turns out to be the real deal.

I'm just curious as this is a nice piece and I haven't seen too many "repros" like this out there.

[Darkislander]

Enjoy it, it looks great.

[PiobBear]

...whether this is really a repro or the real deal.

FWIW:
I've a similar dirk which is definitely an Indian repro; it's similar in many aspects but not identical. India and Egypt are definitely part of the Gordon's battle honors, although I'd have rather expected to see the Caber Feigh and Bydand"

[Dukeof Kircaldy]

FWIW:
I've a similar dirk which is definitely an Indian repro; it's similar in many aspects but not identical. India and Egypt are definitely part of the Gordon's battle honors, although I'd have rather expected to see the Caber Feigh and Bydand"

Thank you.

There is nothing saying India, the way the Indian made dirks usually have, on this dirk.

Also, both the Dirk in James D. Forman's The Scottish Dirk and my Dirk have the India and Egypt insignia. That's why I am curious as to whether this is a repro. Here's a better picture of the Dirk from Forman's book:

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

It is really difficult to assess "originality" from an on-line photograph. That said, there are a few markers that make me think that this may not be a recent Indian/Chinese import.

The first consideration is condition-- the by-knife and fork show wear on the finish of the handles that might be consistent with age. Next, the setting of the stones appears to be fairly well done, and a cut or two better than one might expect on a cheap import. The tack decoration is another indication that the dirk wasn't "made down to a price" in a sweatshop in Kowloon or Dheradun. Also, the sharpness of the stamping on the mounts and the detail of the thistles on the pommel of the dirk seem to be of a better quality level than one usually encounters with cheap Sino-Indian imports. The suede cover of the scabbard may be original or, just as likely, a repair done sometime in the past. The fact that there are no Battle Honours on the blade means nothing-- Officer's dirks were privately purchased, and the amount of decoration was dictated by the depth of the officer's sporran. Finally, this may be a privately purchased Pipe Major's dirk, which might be different from that of an officer, or it could be of war-time manufacture which would explain the lesser quality compared to a pre-war item.

One of the tell-tale signs of most Chinese (and many Indian) copies is the composition of the hilt and handles. These should be of wood, not molded plastic. The fittings are usually silver, silver plate or nickle-- chrome plated fittings are an exception, not the rule.

Having not handled the piece, I can only hazard a guess-- and it's just that, a guess-- that this may have been made sometime after WWII for sale to an impecunious subby, an ex-servicemen or for sale along Sauchiehall Street.

To recover the scabbard or to etch the blade you should contact Mr. Ray Crisp, Crisp and Sons, Sword Culters. Ray was formerly with Wilkinson Sword and is the only man in the world I'd trust to work on one of my swords or dirks. Google: Crisp and Sons Sword Cutlers for their address in England.

[Dukeof Kircaldy]

Thank you, MacMillan of Rathdown. I wasn't expecting a full valuation, just an educated opinion about what exactly this is. It doesn't seem Indian or Chinese to me!

[Jock Scot]

This suggestion may help or may hinder. Are the stones real Cairngorms(smoky quartz)? Any knowledgeable jeweler could tell you almost at a glance whether you have glass or real stones. Ok, it may not be of a quality to warrant real stones anyway even if it was made in the UK, but an avenue to have a brief look down? One thing for sure, if the stones are real, the dirk will not have come from India or China as a repro.

[BEEDEE]

Try contacting the Gordon Highlander's Museum: http://www.gordonhighlanders.com/. When I used to collect British Militaria I found the museums to be a great source of information, even though slow in coming some times.

Brian

[thescot]

It's similar to a repro I own, but it looks like it's better made than mine for all reasons stated above. (The real cairngorm stone question is a good one.)

Whatever it is, unless you got badly fleeced in the price department, I would simply enjoy the fact that you own it and begin looking for a good time to wear it--like to a Burns Supper in a week or so. You can cut the haggis with it.

Congratulations on the purchase either way. It's a great blade and I'm sure you're happy with it.

[macwilkin]

The badge on the scabbard looks, well...odd to me. I can't say I've ever seen that variation before, and the two devices on the saltire are "collar dogs" -- The "Egypt" badge is very similar to ones worn by several regiments, although the South Wales Borderers comes to mind at the moment, and the Tiger is the collar dog of the Gordons, but not with an "India" title.

I would second BEEDEE's suggestion to contact the regimental museum in Aberdeen.

Regards,

Todd