A question regarding a clan badge

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

The downside, if there is one, is that at a distance of even a few feet your "light weight" USMC cap badge looks very much like the circlet used to surround the crest of an armiger.

[Monkey@Arms]

The picture above depicts a USMC hat badge, designed and marketed for the USA. Seriously, how many people in this country (besides a couple of members of this forum) would know or care whether it resembles "a circlet used to surround the crest of an armiger."

Best regards,

Jake

[macwilkin]

The picture above depicts a USMC hat badge, designed and marketed for the USA. Seriously, how many people in this country (besides a couple of members of this forum) would know or care whether it resembles "a circlet used to surround the crest of an armiger."

Best regards,

Jake

As a student of heraldry, Jake, I don't care for your tone here. There are a number of people, such as the Society of Scottish Armigers and others who "know and care" about heraldry.

I recognise many in this country may be unaware of the nuances of heraldry, but I see that as a chance for education, especially people attending Scottish cultural events. After all, if we Americans are going to "play Scotsmen", then we should at least be aware of and respect the traditions, such as heraldic devices.

I think Rathdown made an interesting observation that shouldn't be discounted so easily.

Todd

[Bugbear]

The downside, if there is one, is that at a distance of even a few feet your "light weight" USMC cap badge looks very much like the circlet used to surround the crest of an armiger.

As a student of heraldry, Jake, I don't care for your tone here. There are a number of people, such as the Society of Scottish Armigers and others who "know and care" about heraldry.

I recognise many in this country may be unaware of the nuances of heraldry, but I see that as a chance for education, especially people attending Scottish cultural events. After all, if we Americans are going to "play Scotsmen", then we should at least be aware of and respect the traditions, such as heraldic devices.

I think Rathdown made an interesting observation that shouldn't be discounted so easily.

Todd

Well... Then... If one were going to design and have made a non-clan cap badge, what elements should be on the badge?
Better yet, which elements should one avoid incorperating into the design of the non-clan badge?

[macwilkin]

Well... Then... If one were going to design and have made a non-clan cap badge, what elements should be on the badge?
Better yet, which elements should one avoid incorperating into the design of the non-clan badge?

Besides the aforementioned Xmarks cap badge, Gaelic Themes, the company that produced it, also has some "generic" cap badges, such as a St. Andrew and his cross, a Lion Rampant, a Thistle, etc. on a buckle-and-strap that could be worn in place of a clan badge.

Regards,

Todd

[svc40bt]

The downside, if there is one, is that at a distance of even a few feet your "light weight" USMC cap badge looks very much like the circlet used to surround the crest of an armiger.

I would be curious what kilts thescot wears this badge with? If for instance with the Leatherneck tartan, one might expect it to be USMC related; if with a clan tartan then I would take your point, though I would hope any gentleman who had possible exception to it would take the time to discern that it was in fact no way clan related (other than US Marines being a rather clannish group) and thus that no disrepect was intended.

A related question, as I know little of heraldry. Would one be guilty of anything other than poor taste and disrespect of tradition if they were to wear a plain circlet cap badge or use another's arms in the US? I gather that there are some criminal or civil penalties for doing so in Scotland? Please note that I have no intentions of doing so, in fact I own neither bonnet nor badge, but am just curious if there is any protection for heraldic items from other nations in the US.

[JSFMACLJR]

I
A related question, as I know little of heraldry. Would one be guilty of anything other than poor taste and disrespect of tradition if they were to wear a plain circlet cap badge or use another's arms in the US? I gather that there are some criminal or civil penalties for doing so in Scotland? Please note that I have no intentions of doing so, in fact I own neither bonnet nor badge, but am just curious if there is any protection for heraldic items from other nations in the US.

No, just poor taste and a total disregard of tradition. You might get an earful from someone about this breach; other than that, you won't be hauled off to HM Gaol!

[svc40bt]

No, just poor taste and a total disregard of tradition. You might get an earful from someone about this breach; other than that, you won't be hauled off to HM Gaol!

So, how about in the UK?

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

I would be curious what kilts thescot wears this badge with? If for instance with the Leatherneck tartan, one might expect it to be USMC related;

most people can not recognize any tartan but their own-- they honestly wouldn't know the difference between Leatherneck and Lamont. Those who know something of heraldry would see the badge and think "armiger", without regard for the clan/tartan connection.

...if with a clan tartan then I would take your point, though I would hope any gentleman who had possible exception to it would take the time to discern that it was in fact no way clan related (other than US Marines being a rather clannish group) and thus that no disrepect was intended.

Some might inquire, but the vast majority would not. I think most people would arch an eyebrow, and shrug. A few might say, "ooh", and that would be about it.

A related question, as I know little of heraldry. Would one be guilty of anything other than poor taste and disrespect of tradition if they were to wear a plain circlet cap badge or use another's arms in the US? I gather that there are some criminal or civil penalties for doing so in Scotland? Please note that I have no intentions of doing so, in fact I own neither bonnet nor badge, but am just curious if there is any protection for heraldic items from other nations in the US.

In the USA the use of another person's arms would probably be the legal equivalent of putting a Mercedes Benz star on a kit car, although it would be up to the aggrieved armiger to seek redress through the civil courts. The armiger might have recourse through the criminal courts as he could conceivably claim "identity theft", but I think that would be a bit of a reach.

As the Scottish courts have no jurisdiction in the USA, I doubt someone passing themselves off as an armiger could expect a call from the Procurtor Fiscal of the Court of the Lord Lyon. As an aside, in Scotland foreign armigers, unless resident in Scotland, are exempt for the jurisdiction of Lyon Court. Once they take up residence then they are expected to register their arms and follow Scots law as it appertains to the use of heraldry.